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What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

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Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#121

Post by pjc50 »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #116
josho wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question, one that I'll flip on you as well. Why would we trust private companies to make a healthcare decision that might sacrifice profit for my health? Anticipating your answer that the marketplace solves that issue, but that doesn't exactly help the people that were adversely affected before the marketplace stepped in to solve the problem. Answering your question, I put more trust in my government than priv…

Because those private companies actually have some kind of incentive to keep you happy. If Company A doesn’t give you a good deal on your healthcare, Company B will, meaning Company A will lose out. It’s not a difficult concept. You really trust the government to take care of you? How blind are you? The UK government wasted £12 billion of taxpayer money on an abandoned IT system.

> if Company A doesn’t give you a good deal on your healthcare

... well, too late, because your insurance was chosen and paid for by your employer (if you have one), and your clinical decisions were made for you. Oh, and if you try to change insurers you will be denied coverage for your "pre-existing condition".

The UK is far from perfect, but it does the basics well (antibiotics, contraceptives, emergency care, insulin). And there's zero risk of it making your state worse by bankrupting you.

And for those who want faster care, private insurance is still an option. It's just that: an option. Not something that people have to desperately scramble for.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#122

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

pjc50 wrote: post #121
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because those private companies actually have some kind of incentive to keep you happy. If Company A doesn’t give you a good deal on your healthcare, Company B will, meaning Company A will lose out. It’s not a difficult concept. You really trust the government to take care of you? How blind are you? The UK government wasted £12 billion of taxpayer money on an abandoned IT system.

> if Company A doesn’t give you a good deal on your healthcare ... well, too late, because your insurance was chosen and paid for by your employer (if you have one), and your clinical decisions were made for you. Oh, and if you try to change insurers you will be denied coverage for your "pre-existing condition". The UK is far from perfect, but it does the basics well (antibiotics, contraceptives, emergency care, insu…

That’s debatable, and I suppose relative. I’m still bitter about homeopathy and breast implants being given to patients on the NHS, which I am paying for through taxes.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#123

Post by malvosenior »

josho wrote: post #101
malvosenior wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would we trust the government that just fed us the propaganda you're talking about to run a healthcare system in our interest? > "In fact I think we have the millennials to thank as they grew up after the cold war and did not experience much of the propaganda that older generations did, so they are more open to policies like universal healthcare." So they haven't seen the negative consequences of too much governm…

Great question, one that I'll flip on you as well. Why would we trust private companies to make a healthcare decision that might sacrifice profit for my health? Anticipating your answer that the marketplace solves that issue, but that doesn't exactly help the people that were adversely affected before the marketplace stepped in to solve the problem. Answering your question, I put more trust in my government than priv…

> Why would we trust private companies to make a healthcare decision that might sacrifice profit for my health?

I would say that if there was no government involvement, then their profit would depend on providing quality healthcare service. Right now there are so many regulations and government controls that I can't even choose between multiple providers, pitting them against each other to offer better service.

I'd actually love to purchase private insurance from another country if that was an option. Let's use globalization for good to lower healthcare costs for all. Imagine consulting with a doctor in India over an iOS app and ordering drugs from Mexico...

All of that would only be possible by removing the government from the picture.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#124

Post by berbec »

jrowley wrote: post #6
berbec wrote: post #3

No insurance from my job since I'm freelance. It's $900/month for me and my wife.

May I ask what your rough annual income is? Are you satisfied with your coverage?

55k/year. The coverage is garbage. The phrase "50% covered after coinsurance" pops up everywhere. Only 3 primary care visits per year. Dental that only covers 50% of anything beyond a checkup.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#125

Post by berbec »

whatinsurance wrote: post #8
berbec wrote: post #3

No insurance from my job since I'm freelance. It's $900/month for me and my wife.

I am in the same boat. Me and my wife had Kaiser Bronze for 750 a month. Recently my wife had to go to emergency and we were billed 6000ish because emergency room services are not 100 percent covered. It would have been more but our out of pocket Max was reached. This is northern Cal. When we were in the ER I was too panicked to ask any questions regarding pricing for any recommended tests or if it was necessary. Lat…

I couldn't keep up with the payments in 2018. I lost my coverage in August and got lucky. I cant afford to go to the dentist even when I still had my insurance. I have a broken tooth, a cracked crown and probably 3 cavities.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#126

Post by berbec »

maigret wrote: post #66
berbec wrote: post #3

No insurance from my job since I'm freelance. It's $900/month for me and my wife.

Wow. In Germany you’d be paying 15% of your income for health insurance, and no more than 800$ per person if you make more than 5k a month (around that)

Pretty much every country that isn't America has more sane health care.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#127

Post by josho »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #117
josho wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america Honestly I think it has a lot to do with the popularity of Fox News and its bias against any centrist/left policy. Also, keep in mind that the US was for decades fighting a war against communism which branded any socialist idea as evil and even going so far as to overthrow socialist governments. So, there are decades of propaganda that needs to be overcome. In…

Catching a cold is not a direct consequence of being cold. An orange is not necessarily orange. A government with social programs is not the definition of Socialism. Socialism is two things: - No profit - No private property The consequence in 100% of historic attempts has been immense suffering. More than even the Nazis could deal out. It’s not propaganda. Open a history book. Regards, A left-wing liberal who’s ance…

> It’s not propaganda. Open a history book.

I've read about South & Central America's attempts to move towards the left and how after each attempt the US responded by spending millions to bring down legitimate democratic movements, or even worse installed devastating puppet right wing regimes with chilling affects that we still see today.

Regardless, my point was simply that the fear mongering against socialism bled into a fear of social welfare programs in general. If you took my comment as advocating for changing the US to socialism then I was unclear with my intent.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#128

Post by josho »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #116
josho wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question, one that I'll flip on you as well. Why would we trust private companies to make a healthcare decision that might sacrifice profit for my health? Anticipating your answer that the marketplace solves that issue, but that doesn't exactly help the people that were adversely affected before the marketplace stepped in to solve the problem. Answering your question, I put more trust in my government than priv…

Because those private companies actually have some kind of incentive to keep you happy. If Company A doesn’t give you a good deal on your healthcare, Company B will, meaning Company A will lose out. It’s not a difficult concept. You really trust the government to take care of you? How blind are you? The UK government wasted £12 billion of taxpayer money on an abandoned IT system.

> If Company A doesn’t give you a good deal on your healthcare, Company B will

Then when you need to make a claim you discover that Company B gave a good deal because in the fine print they added exclusions that result in your claim being rejected for some arbitrary reason. So yes, in the long term the competitive landscape works as word gets out that Company B's plan is garbage, but in the short term you are forced into personal bankruptcy or a worse health outcome.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#129

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

josho wrote: post #128
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because those private companies actually have some kind of incentive to keep you happy. If Company A doesn’t give you a good deal on your healthcare, Company B will, meaning Company A will lose out. It’s not a difficult concept. You really trust the government to take care of you? How blind are you? The UK government wasted £12 billion of taxpayer money on an abandoned IT system.

> If Company A doesn’t give you a good deal on your healthcare, Company B will Then when you need to make a claim you discover that Company B gave a good deal because in the fine print they added exclusions that result in your claim being rejected for some arbitrary reason. So yes, in the long term the competitive landscape works as word gets out that Company B's plan is garbage, but in the short term you are forced…

This to me looks like Special Pleading[0].

[0]: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/special-pleading

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#130

Post by sundaeofshock »

onething wrote: post #36
hathawsh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are holding on to the hope that competition in the marketplace will control prices and bring them back to reasonable levels. I know I held on to that hope for a long time, but it's becoming clear that mere competition among insurance providers isn't a strong enough force. Medical prices are so high now that I think people are ready to consider drastic change.

I wouldn't expect competition among insurance companies to lower prices by very much. Insurance companies are already constrained by law as to how much profit they can make and there is only so much overhead you can remove. In terms of competition, the real problem is the artificially low numbers of health care workers and facilities. The Drs are limited by the low number of medical schools, etc and the number of fac…

You could remove profit entirely from the mix. That would reduce costs pretty significantly.
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