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What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

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Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#101

Post by josho »

malvosenior wrote: post #74
josho wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's why I think the word 'propaganda' is fitting, because for a lot of older Americans the 'C' word was bad full stop and didn't merit any further discussion on what parts were bad and what parts may make some sense.

Why would we trust the government that just fed us the propaganda you're talking about to run a healthcare system in our interest? > "In fact I think we have the millennials to thank as they grew up after the cold war and did not experience much of the propaganda that older generations did, so they are more open to policies like universal healthcare." So they haven't seen the negative consequences of too much governm…

Great question, one that I'll flip on you as well. Why would we trust private companies to make a healthcare decision that might sacrifice profit for my health? Anticipating your answer that the marketplace solves that issue, but that doesn't exactly help the people that were adversely affected before the marketplace stepped in to solve the problem.

Answering your question, I put more trust in my government than private corporations because government ostensibly works for me, and citizens get to influence the makeup of our government. (Note, I'm not American, if I lived under the US democracy I might feel differently).

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#102

Post by maxxxxx »

nopriorarrests wrote: post #79
tshaddox wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be interesting if Trump suddenly announced support for single payer Medicare for all. Republicans would think it's the best thing ever and Democrats would suddenly be against it... I think you’ve got this wrong. I think that in most cases partisanship and hero worship is a lot stronger than support for specific policies. I think you’d find that people wouldn’t change their stated views on single-payer, the…

Well, if you are a gun nut, your only options are to support Trump or support his opponents who want to restrict guns in a very serious way. Naturally, you still support Trump even after bump stock ban. This is perfectly rational. Nothing partisanship about it, IMO.

"support his opponents who want to restrict guns in a very serious way."

Is that accurate? Sounds more like NRA propaganda to me to keep people in line.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#103

Post by NicoJuicy »

devereaux wrote: post #58
TheLuddite wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, that's really surprising...not the stiff upper lip...but the repatriation. I thought it's only for people with residence + VIP client in a bank or something.

My suggestion next time you do some tourism: ask. Get quotes. Read the whole contract. You will be surprised what some places offer.

So travelling should be based on the countries where there are good hospitals and then spending time on quotes and reading contracts?

Who would take that advice? It's the worst advice I heard in several years.

I thought travelling was about places that you want to see and trying to avoid hospitals.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#104

Post by afuchs »

devereaux wrote: post #72
swasheck wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (and with IT salaries!). The point of the article was that salary is no longer an indicator of healthcare availability. > Medecine (sic) is a business just like any other. This is the ideology that functions as the crux of the matter. In the US, medicine is a business from which people involved should earn profit. Healthcare (and health, by extension) is not a right. In other places, I suspect it's the opposite. In…

> The point of the article was that salary is no longer an indicator of healthcare availability. And this is why I comment. This is wrong! You should not have to stretch on healthcare if you know how to spend your money. Get treated abroad. It's as simple as that. EDIT: You may lose your job. It's a consequence of life. You will still have saved a bunch of money when taking into count the savings on healthcare and th…

>And this is why I comment. This is wrong! You should not have to stretch on healthcare if you know how to spend your money.

> Get treated abroad. It's as simple as that.

> EDIT: You may lose your job. It's a consequence of life. You will still have saved a bunch of money when taking into count the savings on healthcare and the lower cost of living abroad

It isn't a matter of managing your money properly. There will still be people who are disadvantaged despite making what everyone else would see as the right choices. They can even be in a position where they are at a disadvantage while being fully employed. You can blame it on the structure of the economy and society, or just blame it on bad luck.

Some of these disadvantaged people are covered by existing welfare programs (e.g. Medicaid), but a lot of them aren't.

Insisting that having healthcare is only a matter of financial literacy is naive and disregards reality.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#105

Post by NicoJuicy »

devereaux wrote: post #12

I have the best insurance money can buy: a plane ticket to %anycountry (business class if needed) Cost of emergency endoscopic shoulder surgery in a private for-profit hospital in France, when totally uninsured, and paying by credit card: 1900 Eur - including anesthesiologist fee, surgeon fee, facility fee, radiology, drugs, private room etc. So around $2200 total, done the same day, after being arranged by phone. It…

That's not health insurance, that's having enough money to have alternatives and hoping you have enough time to ignore it.

Health insurance should be affordable for anyone to get local threatment without selling an arm or a leg ( Dutch expression)

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#106

Post by NicoJuicy »

devereaux wrote: post #56
onychomys wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to be rough on you if you're hit by a car in Chicago and you only have insurance in France. There's a world of difference between emergency endoscopic surgery and a trip to the ED (or ER, or A&E, or whatever your country calls it).

My spouse had a trip to the ER at one of the most expansive hospital in Spain: 700 Eur, so about $900, all inclusive (radiology + seeing 2 doctors + bandages + the various fees they sprinkle the bill with). Top service. No delay. No hassle. They even provide a translator to follow you around in the hospital and make sure you get a great experience and come back again. Considering the medican income in Spain in around…

So, which one is it? Untill I see some proof, I don't believe you.

Ps. Should be easy since you found it already.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#107

Post by NicoJuicy »

devereaux wrote: post #92
FireBeyond wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing to note is that travel insurance is typically "Only for emergency care while traveling". You cannot use it to travel abroad for non-emergent surgery, nor for anything that might require LTC (long term care).

This is exactly the goal. I would never use medevac option for non emergency care. My plan is local insurance for non resident for normal non emergency care (we pay for flights) + the option for repatriation in case of emergency surgery required abroad

You suddenly pay for the flights???

But who will pay for the doctor on the flight with you, you mentioned that it was included also for 120/month.

...

Again, some proof would be nice.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#109

Post by baddox »

jmalicki wrote: post #87
baddox wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disaster compared to what? The insane number of medical bankruptcies in the United States?

Compared to dying because treatment a private health insurer pays for would simply be denied, as other payers are prohibited. Why would you want to make medicare supplemental coverage illegal , or forced to be completely separate, which is a characteristic of single-payer health care (as opposed to multiple payer universal health care coverage)?

AFAIK the UK has optional supplemental health care, and Canada has optional supplemental plans for things not covered by the public plan.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#110

Post by NicoJuicy »

chillwaves wrote: post #60
devereaux wrote: post #12

I have the best insurance money can buy: a plane ticket to %anycountry (business class if needed) Cost of emergency endoscopic shoulder surgery in a private for-profit hospital in France, when totally uninsured, and paying by credit card: 1900 Eur - including anesthesiologist fee, surgeon fee, facility fee, radiology, drugs, private room etc. So around $2200 total, done the same day, after being arranged by phone. It…

Do you know what the actual costs associated with common accidents and hospital trips are? I got in a car accident and had 3 surgeries and a one week stay in the hospital. The bill was over $120,000. And I was not in any condition to reject treatment or shop around, as you seem to do in your fantasy scenario.

He doesn't seem to grasp reality, it's astonishing.

I can't let it go that someone is ... Well, like that. He's lucky that he hasn't got any life experience in this situations.

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