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Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

theverge.com

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Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#121

Post by superkuh »

MrRadar wrote: post #111
criley2 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And yes, it most definitely does load slower for me - I have nothing but a blank white page for several seconds. This is quite obviously an error state, likely caused by an extension of yours. Have you tried using Amp in a fresh install of a different browser? Using different network settings? It seems very likely that you are the reason amp doesn't work for you. And this is coming from an amp hater.

The issue is that for some reason amp usually seems to block the content from being displayed until the javascript loads, which strikes me as the exact opposite of what an "accelerated mobile page" should do (almost like it was designed by an advertising company wanting to discourage ad blockers...). You can bypass it by activating reader mode in your browser.

Not only that, but AMP pages are only potentially perceived as 'fast' when you access them through google's search. When you do that all the AMP links' assets are pre-loaded in the background so it seems fast when you click through. But AMP pages themselves are just the same speed as anything else or slower when access without google's monopoly position pre-load.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#122

Post by tallanvor »

bluelu wrote: post #75
tialaramex wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Basically the GDPR is structured around a whole bunch of reasons why you might _need_ to store and process data about people ("Subjects"), for which you have implicit permission because it's necessary to something you're doing for the Subject. You need to make sure Subjects can find out what you needed, and why, and you can't change your mind later. These purposes do not need Consent. You don't need to Consent to…

Tumblr is not any better. No ways to access any page without clicking OK https://www.tumblr.com/privacy/consent?redirect=https%3A%2F%...

All of the "Oath" sites are using the same process that makes you go through multiple screens and manually deselect over 100 options. I'm hoping that investigations into them are opened very quickly.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#123

Post by rijoja »

int_19h wrote: post #97
dnomad wrote: post #55

People who go on and on about the Google and Amazon "monopolies" -- which only benefit consumers with low prices and expansive services -- this is what actual monopolistic behavior looks like. Apple controls access to a significant share of the mobile application industry and it directly abuses that market power to harm customers by reducing competition and artificially raising prices. Apple is being sued in both US…

An example of monopolistic Google behavior was when they refused to make a YouTube app for any Windows platform (Win8, and later Win10) - which is fine - but then they also blocked the app that Microsoft itself has developed. Because they control access to YouTube as a service, they could do that. And because YouTube is the place for videos on the Net, it hurt the platform pretty bad.

Something tells me the ms app avoided showing ads

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#124

Post by jakubp »

matwood wrote: post #117
jakubp wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there Amazon Kindle app for iOS? If there is, isn't it the exact same type of app as Steam Link? Access your content library, buy more content. If Apple lets Amazon do this (presumably because Amazon is too big to ignore) and won't let Steam do it (because Steam isn't big enough), then this feels more like a cartel than monopoly.

There is, but the way the Apple app store rules work is that if you are purchasing something for use in the current app, it must go through the IAP API and give Apple their cut. Purchases for things outside the app (like physical items) are fine. The way this works with Amazon, is in the Amazon store app a user can buy ebooks/audiobooks (along with anything else Amazon sells), and then those books are sent to the Kin…

Ok. What if Amazon customer buys a kindle ebook on Amazon.com and then reads it on iOS Kindle app? I don't imagine Apple gets a cut in that scenario, do they?

A comment here said that Valve was open to disabling buying in the app and they are still banned. Hmm.

I can see how Apple's position to get some cut is reasonable, but we are talking multiplatform here. Was Valve unwilling to give Apple any cut at all? Was Apple insisting on too big a cut? What's going on?

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#125

Post by fma »

matwood wrote: post #117
jakubp wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there Amazon Kindle app for iOS? If there is, isn't it the exact same type of app as Steam Link? Access your content library, buy more content. If Apple lets Amazon do this (presumably because Amazon is too big to ignore) and won't let Steam do it (because Steam isn't big enough), then this feels more like a cartel than monopoly.

There is, but the way the Apple app store rules work is that if you are purchasing something for use in the current app, it must go through the IAP API and give Apple their cut. Purchases for things outside the app (like physical items) are fine. The way this works with Amazon, is in the Amazon store app a user can buy ebooks/audiobooks (along with anything else Amazon sells), and then those books are sent to the Kin…

So that's why I can't buy books on the app... Even though I can find it. Always confused the hell out of me but makes sense now.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#126

Post by criley2 »

Maarten88 wrote: post #110
criley2 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes no sense. Tracking for advertising is the business model of free content. That's how they pay for the "free" content you wish to consume without paying. Do Europeans really think GDPR is a new way to steal internet content without having to pay? It seems like a hard block on all Europeans visiting websites like this would be better (and totally legal, these are private servers with a terms of use, accessin…

> Tracking for advertising is the business model of free content. Well, too bad, that business model has just become illegal in EU. Publishers will have to make do with old style banners or ads. They can still target ads using the content of the page, assuming readers of the article will be interested in the subject. ... or get consent in a compliant way. Success with that!

Or Europeans will have to do with paygates and subscription fees.

There is no "making due". These companies are run very thin already. There is already much less talent, much less pay, and much less quality than most of us would want.

There is a breaking point for providing free content on the internet, and so many publishers are hitting it today WITH TRACKING. So many sites have moved to a X free per month with subscription, or just hard paywalls.

Enjoy your subscription models, because there is no "making due" left, we've already used it all up.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#127

Post by bad_user »

tialaramex wrote: post #38
swebs wrote: post #13

Wow, when trying to access this from the EU, I'm blocked by this huge pop-up telling me to either accept their tracking or fuck off. The cookie policy makes no mention on how to access the site without clicking "I accept", it just directs you to optout.aboutads.info. https://i.imgur.com/dK73MUi.png Is this really GDPR compliant?

No. Basically the GDPR is structured around a whole bunch of reasons why you might _need_ to store and process data about people ("Subjects"), for which you have implicit permission because it's necessary to something you're doing for the Subject. You need to make sure Subjects can find out what you needed, and why, and you can't change your mind later. These purposes do not need Consent. You don't need to Consent to…

The GDPR has the notion of "_legitimate interest_", however tracking, marketing and advertising don't fit the criteria.

For an explanation see: https://www.gdpreu.org/the-regulation/key-concepts/legitimat...

Basically you can say that a company doing home deliveries needs your home address to do so, therefore that's a legitimate interest. But note the same company cannot use your address for sending marketing materials.

And publishers cannot claim to have a legitimate interest in tracking users, even if their revenue comes from serving ads and even if their performance improves by tracking. That is because you can serve ads and do optimizations without tracking users. Even if it is less effective, it's not legitimate.

And it's not that complicated, really. The question is, by providing the service, does the user expect you to use his data or not? In case of pizza delivery, the customer does expect you to use his address for delivering pizza, but at the same time the customer doesn't expect you to give his address to other companies or to use his address for sending marketing materials.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#128

Post by criley2 »

adamjc wrote: post #106
criley2 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Newspapers and magazines have sold advertising without individual reader targeting for years and it continues to be a viable business model Newspapers and magazines charges a subscription. Are you suggesting we should now charge Europeans a subscriptions where we do not for others? I'm ok with that. Don't want tracking? Then give me your credit card and subscribe, or there's the door. Plus, nearly all newspapers are…

> Then give me your credit card and subscribe, or there's the door. I don't understand this type of thinking from some of the posters here on HN, as if GDPR is right now personally affecting you in a negative way. It's a very aggressive way of writing and I've seen a few posters comment in this way. If you want an example of a company that does non-personalised advertising and is successful: DuckDuckGo.

How do you know I am not personally affected by freeloaders who wish to steal content from me and use laws as justification for their entitlement to free no-strings access to my work?

That's very presumptuous.

Re: Apple rejects Valve’s Steam Link game streaming app over ‘business conflicts’

#130

Post by bad_user »

criley2 wrote: post #83
tialaramex wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Basically the GDPR is structured around a whole bunch of reasons why you might _need_ to store and process data about people ("Subjects"), for which you have implicit permission because it's necessary to something you're doing for the Subject. You need to make sure Subjects can find out what you needed, and why, and you can't change your mind later. These purposes do not need Consent. You don't need to Consent to…

>I'm sure somebody will try to claim it's "necessary" to their business to track people and sell everything they possibly can, and I expect European courts to decide that's laughable nonsense. Who pays the verge for the reporting that you wish to read? Is this verge reporting on this article made for free, by a volunteer, etc? Or were they paid? OK, so the Verge is a business, who has to make money. How do they make…

> In this case, tracking you through cookies for advertising purposes seems to be a "necessary" part of the verge, as it is literally a core aspect of the monetization strategy to offer free content in exchange for tracked advertising, as they explain in the pop-up.

That is not how GDPR defines "legimitate interest".

Even if it is less effective, you can serve ads without tracking users via cookies. Therefore it isn't legitimate.

For an explanation see: https://www.gdpreu.org/the-regulation/key-concepts/legitimat...

> No ads = no content

True, but this isn't about serving ads or not, but about tracking individuals.

You can serve ads without user profiling, which is what TV stations have been doing since the invention of the TV. You can even infer certain demographics from the content, which should be enough to hit a target. Articles on publications like The Verge emit tons of signals about who their readers are. Consider just the profile of the website. You don't actually have to track individuals.

It's also true that tracking individuals can yield better profits, although I have my doubts about that. It's also true that, due to abuse, ads are less and less effective, but this is a race to the bottom so might as well stop it now, instead of permitting these companies to collect data that can be abused later.

But yes, if there has to be an end game, the end game IMO is for companies that are doing user tracking to fuck off and do something else.

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