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What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

theguardian.com

121–130 of 133 posts

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#121
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what exactly are you eating now vs before?

I was eating a typical western high carbohydrate, moderate protein, low fat diet with a modest caloric deficit. Lots of starchy veg, breads, rice and pasta. I migrated gradually (six months) to a very low carb diet including abstinence from all forms of artificial sweetener. 9g/122g/100g carbs/fat/protein. On the plate that's lots of saturated fat, moderate protein from meat and dairy (largely unprocessed) and huge v…

Protein also promotes an insulin response.

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#122
post #9

This is a UK article, and I'm going to post a UK-centric, male-centric comment (as a UK-based man), but I suspect my comment applies to both genders, and to many health systems around the world. I don't doubt exercise is extremely valuable, and that everyone should be following the advice in TFA. However, I am starting to think that lifestyle recommendations are a way for a public health system to wash its hands of i…

You should really actually make sure hormonal issues are the problem before attributing your problems to them. This is easily done with a bit of blood work.

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#123

Just in case you need to read this again, exercise changed my life. It simply get rid of the fatigue. Dont take drugs to stay awake, go run half an hour (it really doesn't take more than that to feel tremendous effects).

I would rate my life satisfaction as at least moderate, but is nothing about being alive that could possibly justify the experience of exercise, particularly of running. Given the choice between a lifetime of regular running or death, I’d choose death without even blinking.

You would be missing out on some great experiences. Running is what humans are good at: our bodies are evolutionarily adapted for it. It makes you feel good. Yes, running is hard at first, if you're sedentary. But I can assure you that regular running is considerably more enjoyable than death :)

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#124
post #93

These articles are such exquisite forms of class warfare that it approaches the sublime. 1. Upper class people seek to differentiate themselves from lower class people by status markers (like reading the guardian) 2. In the past, food was scarce, so upper class people were fat when lower class were lean, hence terms like "rubinesque beauty" or the figures of Botticelli's art. 3. Now food is common though, so the stat…

You realise that by rejecting health and exercise on political grounds, you are condemning the lower classes to shorter, unhappier lives? Good food and exercise really are good for your body and mind, whatever you think of those effete Guardian readers.

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#125
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"why don't you exercise?" is always a valid question tho; unless you are physically incapable of doing so, you should, and you're unquestionably damaging your health if you don't.

Being depressed might prevent you from exercising.

true. doesn't mean that you shouldn't. exercise is important for your health in general.

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#126
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That 230 calorie expenditure costs you: > * 1.5 to 2 hours of disruption to your daily life Or a replacement of meditation. Or, as another user suggested, listen to e-books, podcast, music, conduct a phone call, or record whatever interesting thoughts come up. > * An hour spent being extremely bored and uncomfortable Boredom is a matter of adaptation. See above for some suggestions. Comfort? Do you mean because you…

Uncomfortable meaning physically uncomfortable. Even when it's not painful (like walking for an hour on a treadmill), it is uncomfortable and it feels bad and it's boring. Yes podcasts and ebooks are great, but they're even better when you're not exercising. People who enjoy exercise are by far the exception, otherwise we'd see a lot more people doing it. We would see every elliptical at the gym occupied on January 1…

If you feel physically uncomfortable after exercise perhaps you're doing something wrong. You say walking an hour on the treadmill? You need to start light, and do multiple courses. I recommend making a training scheme with a physician. A good gym has one, the more expensive ones have a lower ratio hence more per person (lower overbooking). A good gym doesn't stimulate you signing up for a subscription, it stimulates you to go to the gym. Another thing I recommend is: go by car (we don't have one) or go to one near you so you can give it everything you've got without worrying getting home.

There's no such thing as people who do and people who don't enjoy exercises because one can learn to enjoy exercise. Been there, done it. The only thing I really liked as a kid, was running, but it was useless in high school because we went to school by bus or bicycle. I hated gym on high school. Too many people, I got bullied, I was lean, nerdy, clumsy, and eventually not fit (turns out I happen to be autistic as well). You can find an exercise you enjoy. It doesn't have to be one at the gym (personally, I'm a hermit, but that is one of my issues and with headphones I can close myself down). A small gym might also work. Or, do gym at home with TV or videos (recorded DVDs, YouTube, I still got converted VHS lying around here from an ex).

We recently moved, and I used to be an avid runner + 1 hr yoga a week. We used a moving company, but we still had to paint and I had to carry the old lamination to a point in the street where the city waste disposal will pick it up (~100 meters). Took me a total of 2,5 hours, solo. It was tough, but because before we moved I changed my running exercise (3/week 30-40 min) to just 15 min a day overall exercises (5/week, all kind of different ones on TV. A mix of some examples: yoga, salsa dancing, boxing, tai chi, including a warming up and cooling down) I was overall more fit. After 1,5 hours I bruised some muscles and my arms could no longer carry so much. I had to half the amount I could carry to an amount which in the start would've been a laughter. My legs were still strong at that point though, so I just had to walk more.

Had I not exercised I'd be far more depressed to even start with this. Had I remained running solely I'd have to walk even more with less amount much sooner. Had I have RL friends, I'd have help. If I wasn't so shy I'd have borrowed a shopping cart from the store near me, and used that instead as my partner suggested.

If my mother-in-law needs help with her smartphone, I can go bicycle to her in 15 min. Instead of looking depressed at that ("oh no I gotta cycle"), I see it as an opportunity, and fun. I gotta go to the store, carry some groceries? My partner needs me to pick up something heavy? Carry her backpack for whatever reason? No worries, I'll do it without a problem. Because I am (relatively) fit.

That is what it's about, and that is precisely "less depressed" as the title says. And, I feel more masculine.

The ultimate way for the entire title is not exercise however, it is a different diet. Exercise can be a good co-factor and goes hand in hand with a better diet. It is great against the depression. And when did I restart running in early adolescence? When did I pick it up? Somewhere end of '00, when I quit smoking.

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#127
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a well run meta analysis. http://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depre... > Exercise is moderately more effective than no therapy for reducing symptoms of depression. [...] > The reviewers also note that when only high-quality studies were included, the difference between exercise and no therapy is less conclusive. [...] > The evidence about whether exercise for depression improves quality of l…

No one is suggesting that exercise replace any other treatment. Is that the impression you were getting? But because it has in fact helped at least some people, it seems limiting for any person to disqualify that for themselves without a try.

I'm a proponent of light daily exercise (my government recommends 21 min a day light exercise and twice a week heavy exercise [1]), but this argument doesn't hold water. There are also people who claim to benefit from homeopathy (a pseudoscience). Is their anecdotal evidence worth as much as ours?

[1] To be precise: 150 min a week of medium movement (walking, cycling), twice a week heavy movement (running, soccer aka football), and avoid sitting still [2]. Also, the difference between 0 and 15 min of exercise is larger than 15 and 30 min. That's why it feels so good to start with exercises and only do it very little.

[2] https://www.gezondheidsraad.nl/nl/taak-werkwijze/werkterrein...

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#128
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is suggesting that exercise replace any other treatment. Is that the impression you were getting? But because it has in fact helped at least some people, it seems limiting for any person to disqualify that for themselves without a try.

I'm a proponent of light daily exercise (my government recommends 21 min a day light exercise and twice a week heavy exercise [1]), but this argument doesn't hold water. There are also people who claim to benefit from homeopathy (a pseudoscience). Is their anecdotal evidence worth as much as ours? [1] To be precise: 150 min a week of medium movement (walking, cycling), twice a week heavy movement (running, soccer aka…

That's a strange comparison. Nearly every doctor in existence recommends exercise for a wide variety of reasons. How many recommend homeopathy? It's more than a little surprising to me to see several people in this thread who are explicitly skeptical about the value and potential effects of exercise.

I just think it would be unfair for someone to read these comments and then think, "ah, see, there is no reason I should try regularly exercising," and give up before they have started. Do you think that is a good outcome? Even you said you are a proponent of exercise.

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#129
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a proponent of light daily exercise (my government recommends 21 min a day light exercise and twice a week heavy exercise [1]), but this argument doesn't hold water. There are also people who claim to benefit from homeopathy (a pseudoscience). Is their anecdotal evidence worth as much as ours? [1] To be precise: 150 min a week of medium movement (walking, cycling), twice a week heavy movement (running, soccer aka…

That's a strange comparison. Nearly every doctor in existence recommends exercise for a wide variety of reasons. How many recommend homeopathy? It's more than a little surprising to me to see several people in this thread who are explicitly skeptical about the value and potential effects of exercise. I just think it would be unfair for someone to read these comments and then think, "ah, see, there is no reason I shou…

We agree on much more than we disagree on.

We all sometimes share anecdotes. I shared one as well in this thread.

I don't discount the advice of doctors, or the advice from the government which is a summary of the advice of many medical experts.

What I say is that anecdotal evidence isn't evidence, and when someone calls us on that, we should accept that specific counter-argument and move on.

If we're going to enforce people to accept our anecdotal evidence what is going to stop people from accepting other's anecdotal evidence on, say, homeopathy indeed?

Also, the amount of professionals who recommend something isn't definitive proof either. Not every professional is equal. What matters is the amount of studies which haven't been debunked.

> I just think it would be unfair for someone to read these comments and then think, "ah, see, there is no reason I should try regularly exercising," and give up before they have started. Do you think that is a good outcome? Even you said you are a proponent of exercise.

I don't know about the USA or anywhere else in the world but the health recommendation I quoted was merely a minor revision and widely in the local news. I read about it in the newspaper, saw it on TV in the news, saw it covered on a popular talkshow, and I'm sure it was shared on social media as well. People who, at this point, do not want to exercise and claim it is completely useless are just ignorant or in denial IMNSHO. Its the same with people who remain smoker for whatever excuse or reason, or who keep drinking alcohol.

However as I wrote in numerous posts throughout this thread, diet has the largest effect on health. I'm repeating myself, but its: less calories, less sugar, less salt, less saturated fat (transfats are a thing of the past).

I also very much liked the quote of someone saying that whoever says there's more to dieting than calories is trying to sell you something. It makes losing weight unnecessarily difficult and complex.

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#130
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more reasons to exercise than just weight loss and there's more to being healthy than just maintaining a specific weight.

> There are more reasons to exercise than just weight loss and there's more to being healthy than just maintaining a specific weight. This is the worst advice you could ever give to someone who's very overweight. For overweight people exercise is a complete waste of time, and their bodyweight actually is what matters above all else as far as their health goes. Telling an obese person that they should do some jumping…

> If adding exercise to that equation adds a 0.1% chance of you giving up

That's because you put on a (too) high standard, and if you don't make it, instead of lowering your goal you end up with a defeatist attitude and give up. If you do that in your professional life as well that's a recipe for a burnout.

Example: say you want to go to the gym but you can't make it this week. Is that a huge issue? Does that mean you shouldn't go anymore at all? That everything's lost? No! Just try next time again, and do your best. Say your training scheme tells you that you should run 5 km in 30 min, you're on 20 min and only at 2,5 km. Does that mean you should give up? No. It means you should follow your pace as far as you can push it. Overcoming such might even strengthen you if the adversary is burnout.

If you're under the guidance of a quality physician or training scheme (basically same, as physician makes that for/with you) that shouldn't happen.

I replied to a previous post of you where you were saying you were running for an hour (!) at the gym. An hour! That's not how you start with getting fit. That's way too hardcore already. For one, its too long. Second, its the same stuff all the time, while you clearly don't seem to enjoy running. If you enjoy running, sure, but you don't.

Why don't you try different exercises and accept that there's some you like and some you dislike? Example: if you're only rowling for 10 minutes while you enjoy planking more which is next, you got something to look forward to. Plus, perhaps you'll start to like rowling eventually. My (anecdotal) experience is that eventually, once I get good at it, I start enjoying it more.

When I do daily exercises as broadcasted on TV (using rebroadcasted IPTV) there's all kind of exercises I enjoy and some I dislike. Especially the stuff I'm relatively bad at (basically anything involving hamstring like multiple, deep squats) is rough. But after I did them I feel the difference. And if I can't do it exactly as the example shows, I can at least try to mimmic it as good as I can. Eventually, I'll get better.

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