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What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

theguardian.com

111–120 of 133 posts

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#111
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Virtually everyone that advocates exercise as a way to lose weight mentions in the same breath that it has to go hand-in-hand with a diet. Something must be wrong with exercise then, because that’s not true of dieting at all. Just dieting will do just fine.

There are more reasons to exercise than just weight loss and there's more to being healthy than just maintaining a specific weight.

> There are more reasons to exercise than just weight loss and there's more to being healthy than just maintaining a specific weight.

This is the worst advice you could ever give to someone who's very overweight.

For overweight people exercise is a complete waste of time, and their bodyweight actually is what matters above all else as far as their health goes.

Telling an obese person that they should do some jumping jacks so their heart will be nice and healthy is just absurd. I see parents doing this all the time (and had it done to me), they get their obese kid running around and encourage them to engage in all these ultra-boring uncomfortable painful "fitness activities" that will never in a million years form into a habit for them. Then they take them home and give them some chicken nuggets for a job well done.

These people are more concerned with the theater of weight loss than they are with actual weight loss, because the theater of it gives them the highest ratio of guilt relief to effort expended.

For those kids, for the rest of their lives, every time they consider trying to lose weight, they'll see visions of running toward a brick wall for an hour without ever getting closer to it, and taking an hour out of their day to go somewhere and move things with their arms until they're sore. "Yeah fuck that", they'll say, never fully realizing that weight loss is really just about passively managing their food intake. Or maybe they'll try, it'll make them completely miserable (like it does for most people), and they'll perceive that as a personal failing and give up both dieting and exercise, once again not realizing that 99% of their goal can be achieved with just the dieting part.

The reality is that as long as you're overweight, your primary health objective should be to lose weight, and the only way to do that is to change what you eat and how much of it you eat over the long term. If adding exercise to that equation adds a 0.1% chance of you giving up, then it's not worth it.

Until you're at a normal weight, exercise is a premature optimization.

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#112
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That 230 calorie expenditure costs you: > * 1.5 to 2 hours of disruption to your daily life Or a replacement of meditation. Or, as another user suggested, listen to e-books, podcast, music, conduct a phone call, or record whatever interesting thoughts come up. > * An hour spent being extremely bored and uncomfortable Boredom is a matter of adaptation. See above for some suggestions. Comfort? Do you mean because you…

Uncomfortable meaning physically uncomfortable. Even when it's not painful (like walking for an hour on a treadmill), it is uncomfortable and it feels bad and it's boring. Yes podcasts and ebooks are great, but they're even better when you're not exercising. People who enjoy exercise are by far the exception, otherwise we'd see a lot more people doing it. We would see every elliptical at the gym occupied on January 1…

> I don't think exercise matters anywhere near as much as you think it does. I've waited my whole life for proof, and all I've ever gotten is correlations found in studies funded by vested interests (if exercise works the food industry can shift blame onto the consumer).

It's pretty clear that you haven't researched much, given that you had absolutely no clue how many calories are burned from an hour of exercise. And the vested interests of the fitness industry are not nearly as strong as the food industry among others, and I don't think it's fair or accurate to characterize the massive amount of research showing the benefits of exercise as being corrupted by money.

You are right though that diet is the key to losing weight, because most out of shape people cannot exercise hard enough to be able to eat as much as they want -- but that is one of the nice benefits that you've disregarded of being in really good shape and exercising intensely.

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#113
post #64

Just to avoid confusion, not all clinical depression is fully treatable by exercise; I've known several people who were severely depressed while also being non-car-owning regular cyclists. Sometimes antidepressants are required. Sometimes therapy is required. Please avoid turning this into "why don't you just exercise".

You can see this if you just look at the last few hundred years of human history. Humans used to have to engage in hours of labor every day just to survive. If the sun was up you were exercising. Were they so much happier and healthier? There are people in the world who still have to do that labor. They're not happier or healthier or longer-lived than the western world. In fact, the overall high-level trend appears t…

> They're not happier or healthier or longer-lived than the western world. In fact, the overall high-level trend appears to be that happiness is correlated with being sedentary.

Source?

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#114
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uncomfortable meaning physically uncomfortable. Even when it's not painful (like walking for an hour on a treadmill), it is uncomfortable and it feels bad and it's boring. Yes podcasts and ebooks are great, but they're even better when you're not exercising. People who enjoy exercise are by far the exception, otherwise we'd see a lot more people doing it. We would see every elliptical at the gym occupied on January 1…

> I don't think exercise matters anywhere near as much as you think it does. I've waited my whole life for proof, and all I've ever gotten is correlations found in studies funded by vested interests (if exercise works the food industry can shift blame onto the consumer). It's pretty clear that you haven't researched much, given that you had absolutely no clue how many calories are burned from an hour of exercise. And…

> It's pretty clear that you haven't researched much, given that you had absolutely no clue how many calories are burned from an hour of exercise.

Treadmill manufacturers have every incentive to overestimate the number of calories burned in an hour, so I was generous and used that number. If I had to pick a number myself based on my personal experience, I'd probably have gone lower. The laws of thermodynamics put that number somewhere above 0, I'll admit.

My point was that a population that burns 10,000,000 calories in additional exercise will consume >10,000,000 additional calories as a result of having exercised.

> And the vested interests of the fitness industry are not nearly as strong as the food industry among others, and I don't think it's fair or accurate to characterize the massive amount of research showing the benefits of exercise as being corrupted by money.

I wasn't referring to the fitness industry, I was referring to the food industry. Companies like Coca Cola are among the largest funders of pro-exercise research.[1]

The food industry has an incredible amount to gain by getting people to believe exercise works. They get the PR benefits of showing everyone how much they care about preventing obesity by spending a lot of money on the research, they get to influence that research by cutting funding to scientists who produce inconclusive or negative results (which shapes the way the population thinks about exercise to fit the Coca-Cola narrative), and they release themselves of all liability in the obesity epidemic by shifting the blame onto the consumer.

It allows them to credibly claim that any consumer who experiences negative health effects from drinking their soda could have mitigated those negative health effects by exercising, but chose not to exercise. Muddying the waters on exercise is the food industry's perfect panacea, they want this to be true more than anybody.

And they're winning, too. Remember all that stuff the tobacco companies were doing in the '50s and '60s? That's the food industry right now, except they're winning. Because people will believe anything about exercise.

[1] https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/coca-cola-funds-sc...

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#115
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see this if you just look at the last few hundred years of human history. Humans used to have to engage in hours of labor every day just to survive. If the sun was up you were exercising. Were they so much happier and healthier? There are people in the world who still have to do that labor. They're not happier or healthier or longer-lived than the western world. In fact, the overall high-level trend appears t…

> They're not happier or healthier or longer-lived than the western world. In fact, the overall high-level trend appears to be that happiness is correlated with being sedentary. Source?

This is completely self-evident and not even controversial, but here you go:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Wo...

Agrarian populations spend all their time doing hard labor to earn basic necessities like food, water and shelter. That sucks and they're less happy.

People in western nations live longer and move less. The correlation is pretty obvious.

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#116

I reversed diabetes with diet alone by doing my own research[1], taking charge of my health. I lost 180lbs in the process. No exercise (disabled). Very much a work in progress. I'm not rejecting the importance of exercise for health - I follow the general principal of eating to get healthy, exercising to get fit - but I think we skip over the absolute tragedy that is the Standard American Diet at our peril. Recoverin…

I'm on the same track as you, I've lost about 80lbs so far and I've done zero exercise. I've found that when I tell people this, they worry about my health even more than they did when I was 80lbs heavier. It's bizarre. Never mind the fact that my blood pressure is now a pristine 110 over 70, all my pre-diabetic symptoms have disappeared, my sleep apnea is cured, my gastroesophageal reflux disease is completely gone,…

[deleted]

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#117

Just in case you need to read this again, exercise changed my life. It simply get rid of the fatigue. Dont take drugs to stay awake, go run half an hour (it really doesn't take more than that to feel tremendous effects).

I would rate my life satisfaction as at least moderate, but is nothing about being alive that could possibly justify the experience of exercise, particularly of running. Given the choice between a lifetime of regular running or death, I’d choose death without even blinking.

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#118

Just in case you need to read this again, exercise changed my life. It simply get rid of the fatigue. Dont take drugs to stay awake, go run half an hour (it really doesn't take more than that to feel tremendous effects).

Indeed, an early morning run or swim will wake you up better than caffeine will.

As can being beaten with a baseball bat or shocked with a cattle prod, but fortunately we’ve found a mechanism other than pain.

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#119
post #21

I think it's amazing the way we've completely sidelined physical activity - not exercise per se, but any physical activity - in our western lives. Unless you live without a car, there is no requirement for you to walk more than 1000 steps during the day. Wake up, drive to work, sit at your desk, drive to a restaurant for dinner, drive home, plop down on your couch. Rinse, repeat. Even if you do decide to work out, it…

This sounds particularly American, rather than for the entire west.

We like to think so, but there are swaths of Western European where this is true. Replace the Dodge with a Citroen, the Walmart with Tesco, and the Olive Garden with a pub. Even in the most pro-bike and public transportation nations in Europe 20-30% of adults drive to work.

Re: What's the ultimate way to defy depression, disease and early death? Exercise

#120
post #21

I think it's amazing the way we've completely sidelined physical activity - not exercise per se, but any physical activity - in our western lives. Unless you live without a car, there is no requirement for you to walk more than 1000 steps during the day. Wake up, drive to work, sit at your desk, drive to a restaurant for dinner, drive home, plop down on your couch. Rinse, repeat. Even if you do decide to work out, it…

> We used to be active Being fit, or at least not fat, was also a cultural priority until relatively recently.

The cultural priority in the 1950s was to not be thin.
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