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How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

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Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#121

Post by reader5000 » Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 1:21 PM UTC

kls wrote: post #18

reader5000 wrote: post #7

This guy's anger is justified and I think his lawyer failed him.

I think his lawyer failed him No he did not, this is not court, you have no right to due process. Your rights are considered secondary to the rights of the children given that you are in question you can not by nature be the child advocate. The DCF (whoever your states agency is) takes that role. So they get to decide if a lawyer is present or not for child questioning, etc. All you really can get from a lawyer in th…

I have no idea if this is settled law or not, but in this instance where the DCF is causing irreparable harm to both the children and the parents it seems a court's intervention could at least be asked for, i.e. file an injunction on the investigation or something to that effect. I'm not a lawyer but I don't think I would feel right just sitting back and being a passive message-passer for the DCF while they destroy my client's lives.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#122

Post by timknauf » Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 1:23 PM UTC

gscott wrote: post #102

jacquesm wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a good part of that is the fundamentalist Christian ('reborn') element in the United States which commands a fair portion of the vote.

I would suggest these organizations are more liberal thinkers where the child is better off under Government supervision. The Bible is pretty clear that the parent should raise the child. The Bible is really against "Caesar" taking a big part of your life for example 'spare the rod, spoil the child'.

While verses in Proverbs arguably align with the sentiment, the actual "spare the rod, spoil the child" construction is from a poem by Samuel Butler.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#123

Post by waivej » Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 1:23 PM UTC

pyre wrote: post #96

c1sc0 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll add to that by saying it's a sign of our times as well. I was educated with material from the 60's / 70's & having nudity in school textbooks was perfectly normal then, including shared nudity between adults & children.

I almost have a feeling that in the US we are building up to a Hilter-esque take-over of the government. It's just taking a lot longer than it took the Nazis because the times aren't as extreme, and our system of government was better designed to resist such things...

Let's just hope our economy holds out. It reminds me of a photo of a German shoveling money into a woodstove because it was so devalued...and the folks were ready to listen to someone promising a way to be a world power again.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#124

Post by kls » Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 1:23 PM UTC

wjy wrote: post #114

kls wrote: post #13

I had a similar run in with DCF, not for child pornography but for accusations of child abuse. I helped out a high school friend who had become a heroin addict (I had no idea what I was getting into), by letting his family and himself live with me while he tried to recover. It ended up that this was a common scam with him and his wife and they use a sob story to get friends to help them out and once they wear out the…

Thanks for sharing that. How did you manage to stay calm and respectful in the face of all the condescension and threat of losing your children? Since my son was born, I've observed my own protective tendencies really ratchet up. The few times I believed he was in real danger, all other concerns fell away, and removing the perceived danger was the only thing that mattered to me. I worry that were I to find my house i…

In the article the authors writes about being on a ladder and loosing it. That was a really hard part of the story to read as I remember that exact moment when I started to fade and the exact moment when I crossed the line. I would be foolish (and afraid) to openly talk about my thoughts and private actions during that period. On that subject, it is best left at; in my opinion, I was further gone in my mind then the author seemed to be. It may be that he fears talking about it as well for fear of charges or another investigation for making threats. This experience leaves and indelible mark and leaves you looking over your shoulder for the boogy-man.

but seriously just like the author stated, my lawyer was the only thing that could pull me back into sanity. His slow calm voice logically deducing my actions and the outcomes would allow me to see the checkmate I was in and that any of those actions would be selfish (only make me feel better) and bring my family more harm than good. He would talk about my family being abandoned via my actions. Those words hurt more than knifes given the situation, thinking about your kids and wife left alone to deal with it (whether from you sitting in jail or worse) really cures you of those kind of thoughts.

EDIT: my wife reminded me that I did have one episode. We have an ice maker in our fridge that if you put it on crushed ice it will jam up due to poor design. Anyway the DCF agent is talking to me and I am trying to get ice, one of the kids put it on crushed so it is jammed, I go to the drawer to get an ice pick and start break up the ice. The DCF agent has got up from her seat and is walking towards me and is accusing me of all kind of crap, I am starting to raise my voice, keep in mind the fridge door is in between our views of each other. She continues on and at this point I am screaming at her and I slam the door and have an ice pick in my hand, keep in mind I resemble a younger Jack Nicholson (a lot). So here she is presented with a screaming man with an ice pick in his hand that looks as crazy as Jack in the Shining. She quickly left the house and returned with a police escort and always had an escort from the point forward. My wife said it was the most frightening things she had ever seen. The ice pick was a coincident and I was not holding it to intimidate her but looking back I can see how crazy that scene must have looked.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#125

Post by ugh » Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 1:24 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #36

Jun8 wrote: post #3

America has one of the absurdly strictest set of laws for sex offenses against minors, Economist had a great cover story about this some weeks ago. Problem is, since politicians know proposals for stricter laws bring in votes and no sane politician would ever propose a relaxation in these laws, they get stricter every year. On the other hand, the US has one of the most sexualized tweens and teen-agers I have ever see…

America has one of the absurdly strictest set of laws for sex offenses against minors no sane politician would ever propose a relaxation in these laws So what did the other countries, that have less-strict laws, do? (I agree that Americans are very afraid of anything sexual, but I'm not sure how this happened. Not everyone is a Puritan.)

So what did the other countries, that have less-strict laws, do?

It’s not a very nice answer but I think they have less direct democracies and delegate many of the nitty-gritty details of the law to experts. That’s also why there is no death penalty in Europe.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#126

Post by olliesaunders » Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 1:24 PM UTC

wil2k wrote: post #92

holdenc wrote: post #24

This kind of story is indicting of our culture. Outside the US nudity is not so taboo. In my daughter's kindergarten (a nice private school in Southeast Asia) boys and girls share the same bathroom, with no private stalls, and no door on the entrance. Everyone sees everything -- passers-by included. Meanwhile, in the US, nudity is synonymous with sex, and good people have to worry about things like this.

And as the late Terence McKenna put it: Culture is your Operating System http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c8an2XZ3MU Stuff to ponder about! :O

Ah, I see, the solution is to get high! (That's what the video says).

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#127

Post by olliesaunders » Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 1:26 PM UTC

roc wrote: post #119

olliesaunders wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nudity, violence, and death cannot be hidden, they are inherit. Trying to hide them won't work. The more you hide it the more significant and fascinating the less frequent exposures appear. This isn't to say that extensive exposure can't lead to distorted conditioning or attitudes; it can. But you can't damage a child through non-exposure; it's just not possible in the first place.

> "But you can't damage a child through non-exposure; it's just not possible in the first place." Whether honest non-exposure might be fine is beyond even an academic concern. It's overwhelmingly improbable that a child could be raised without being exposed to those things; short of willful sheltering.

Short of imprisonment and brainwashing I'd say.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#128

Post by Yaggo » Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 1:29 PM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #107

Yaggo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading the article, my first thought was "why I can't imagine that happening outside the US?". When and why did nudity become such a taboo there? It seems to be much more acceptable to show children violence than nudity, which I found absurd. I mean, which is more harmful for 13 years old child to see on TV, a breast or shooting?

While I don't necessarily disagree, let me point out that it's considered okay to show a painting of a breast, or an acted shooting, but showing an actual breast or real shooting are both considered taboo. I think people lose track of the fact that violence on TV (and in video games, etc) is pretend violence, whereas most nudity is real nudity, rather than a simulation of same. I'm not saying that makes it sensible,…

Now I'm a bit confused. Does (real) breasts of an actress seen on tv count as "actual breasts"?

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#129

Post by lftl » Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 1:30 PM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #66

impeachgod wrote: post #63

I tend to hold the Thoreauvian point that one ought to resist unfair laws. As I noticed, Child Protective Services are state agencies. If someone was falsely accused of child abuse/child porn, with no hope of winning the case whatsoever, how effective would it be to run away with the family?

IANAL, but in general, I think meritless cases like this one eventually get dismissed, though it's a lot of hassle and waste in the meantime. Even if your case doesn't get dismissed and your children are about to get taken away, running away with the children could only vastly, vastly aggravate the matter, as far as I am aware. In many cases you'll be able to get the children back. If you flee, that is much less like…

I think it depends on what phase you're in with regards to leaving. If at the very beginning of the investigation, after the first visit from DFS, they had left for France I imagine this case would have simply been forgotten. They hadn't been charged with any crime, so they're not legal fugitives in any sense. They may never want to return to that particular state on the off chance someone from DFS who remembers the case notices them, but I imagine even that to be a very slim possibility. Even later in the case though, I'm troubled to think of a law they're breaking by simply moving to another state.

If I'm ever in a situation similar to this, I will heavily weigh moving, or at least sending my wife and kids out of state, before entrusting my family to a random bureaucrat.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#130

Post by kls » Tue, Jul 20, 2010, 1:30 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #83

_pi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, I am so sorry for your experience that sounds completely terrible. Second, was there nothing your lawyer could do, such as file an injunction against the DCF? Is there any way you can be compensated (in any way) for your experience? If there was would you take it?

The problem with that avenue is that this sort of agency is very vengeful and they have the power to make your life very miserable. So if after you've won your injunction they find half an excuse to 'intervene' again they'll definitely do so. It's rare that I would advocate to just let it be but in this case that would seem to me to be the safest option. Pick your battles.

Bingo, I live in mortal fear of DCF and our next encounter (that how crazy the paranoia is). I pray every day, even now, that I am off their radar. I don't want anything to do with them. I don't want their money (I have exited 3 start-ups, I have enough, I am not FU rich but enough that I don't want to bring their heat). I just want to give them a wide birth and stay away from them.

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