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How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

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81–90 of 216 posts

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#81
post #44

This is tremendously disturbing, but according to the article pretty common. It's a tough line. On the one hand, nobody wants children to suffer. If at all possible, every child should be protected from abuse. I think the key, as the author elaborates on, is education. Knowing the difference between a crazy hippy family and pedophiles seems like common sense -- but if you, as an uneducated clerk at a crappy CVS in th…

In practice it just doesn't work very well sometimes. I think it's better to risk letting more child abusers off the hook, than potentially ruining the lives of decent parents like these.

If it's hurt adults or let children be hurt, I don't know if I can agree with you. Children are much more powerless than most adults, and the strong should always stick up for the weak.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#82
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(at best they were all "just doing their jobs", just like concentration camp guards) Quoted for truth. This is not an invocation of Godwin's law, but the closest possible analogy, as these bureaucrats make the exact same repugnant decisions someone like Eichmann made. They fully well know they ruin the lives of many innocent folks; at least half the cases turn out to have been nothing. The problem is not 'the governm…

Yes the hysteria in Europe is quite similar. I think that part of this has to do with the fact that whenever a case of child abuse arises, and it's shown that the social services did not do enough to protect the child from harm, there's a huge media circus, legal cases brought against the council, heads of department sacked and so on. So from the social services point of view false negatives can be prohibitively cost…

Recently a dutch study indicated that the false positives are actually by far the majority of the cases and on top of that plenty of child abuse goes unnoticed.

False reports out of revenge (for instance, between divorcees, jealous neighbours or oither idiots) are also very common, and the damage done to families because of that is significant.

The cure seems to be much worse than the disease here.

Friends of ours had a 'visit' of the dutch equivalent of the 'service' (I use the term lightly) who kept on suggesting that there must be something wrong. When the guy got up to make coffee the woman said 'you can tell me now', as though she was a victim too. Unbelievable, the way these people push their way in to peoples lives, guilty by default and if you are very very lucky you might get to keep your kids at their say-so.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#83
post #20
post #13

I had a similar run in with DCF, not for child pornography but for accusations of child abuse. I helped out a high school friend who had become a heroin addict (I had no idea what I was getting into), by letting his family and himself live with me while he tried to recover. It ended up that this was a common scam with him and his wife and they use a sob story to get friends to help them out and once they wear out the…

First off, I am so sorry for your experience that sounds completely terrible. Second, was there nothing your lawyer could do, such as file an injunction against the DCF? Is there any way you can be compensated (in any way) for your experience? If there was would you take it?

The problem with that avenue is that this sort of agency is very vengeful and they have the power to make your life very miserable. So if after you've won your injunction they find half an excuse to 'intervene' again they'll definitely do so.

It's rare that I would advocate to just let it be but in this case that would seem to me to be the safest option. Pick your battles.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#84
post #3

America has one of the absurdly strictest set of laws for sex offenses against minors, Economist had a great cover story about this some weeks ago. Problem is, since politicians know proposals for stricter laws bring in votes and no sane politician would ever propose a relaxation in these laws, they get stricter every year. On the other hand, the US has one of the most sexualized tweens and teen-agers I have ever see…

I think a good part of that is the fundamentalist Christian ('reborn') element in the United States which commands a fair portion of the vote.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#85
post #9

Wait until some enterprising district attorney confiscates your hard drive, surmises you frequent HN, subpoenas your voting history from pg, finds this thread and examines which anti-governement/pro-common-sense comments you up voted. Everything you say (and/or write) may be used against you. Have a nice day :)

They wouldn't have to go through PG either, votes can be lifted from the URL log that your provider is required to keep.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#86
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absurd; there is a distinct difference between seeing something that concerns you and becoming sexually aroused by said image. To suggest they are "consumers of child pornography" is just a bit rude... For the untrained eye such photo's as in this case may have shocked him/her and prompted the knee-jerk reaction of calling the police. You are right in part; I think the main problem is that, absurdly, any image…

>That's absurd; there is a distinct difference between seeing something that concerns you and becoming sexually aroused by said image. To suggest they are "consumers of child pornography" is just a bit rude... What is absurd is a situations where natural actions (taking photos of your children) become, randomly, life ruining [1]. You say my suggestion is rude but this is in fact exactly what happened to the author of…

If this were isolated it might not be such a huge issue, but it's happening quite a lot (relatively).

No it isn't. You hear about some of these cases because, rightly, it occasionally hits the media but in general it is not happening a lot (comparatively anyway).

People are getting too cagey over child nudity and prudish in general; but I don't think it is a result of either being a pedophile or sex offender.

I would pick the clerk as he/she is actually exhibiting bizarre behavior.

Not to my mind. They are reacting irrationally to images that disturb him/her; it does not make them a sex offender.

I see what you are saying; but I don't think it comes as a result of people being abused or secretly being pedophiles; it is more a reflection of a society where we are slowly becoming terrified of the "bogeyman" pedophile at every turn.

To put your point another way; if you saw, through a living room window, someone strangling another person whilst having sex with them would you call the police? And would it be because you found it sexually arousing? or is because you were worried about the person? See the difference.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#87
post #13

I had a similar run in with DCF, not for child pornography but for accusations of child abuse. I helped out a high school friend who had become a heroin addict (I had no idea what I was getting into), by letting his family and himself live with me while he tried to recover. It ended up that this was a common scam with him and his wife and they use a sob story to get friends to help them out and once they wear out the…

I wonder what is with those brownie points? Do they transform into big buck$?

Promotions, or just having their superiors leave them alone. We have similar problems in France with quotas. Policemen are encouraged to arrest a certain number of people per year, or else. The problem here is that they are evaluated by the number of arrests (easy to assess), instead of the actual efficiency of their work (very difficult to assess accurately).

This evaluation method is of course as disastrous as lines of codes are for programmers. As a result, 1% of the French population has been arrested at least once last year. And this number is increasing.

Another example would be the number of American citizens that are on the Terrorist Watch List (I recall 4% [citation needed]). Official may get brownie points for putting one in, but never for putting one out. (Plus, there's might be an almost non-null chance that the guy might be, or know, a terrorist. Perhaps.)

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#88
post #24

This kind of story is indicting of our culture. Outside the US nudity is not so taboo. In my daughter's kindergarten (a nice private school in Southeast Asia) boys and girls share the same bathroom, with no private stalls, and no door on the entrance. Everyone sees everything -- passers-by included. Meanwhile, in the US, nudity is synonymous with sex, and good people have to worry about things like this.

After reading the article, my first thought was "why I can't imagine that happening outside the US?". When and why did nudity become such a taboo there? It seems to be much more acceptable to show children violence than nudity, which I found absurd. I mean, which is more harmful for 13 years old child to see on TV, a breast or shooting?

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#89
post #3

America has one of the absurdly strictest set of laws for sex offenses against minors, Economist had a great cover story about this some weeks ago. Problem is, since politicians know proposals for stricter laws bring in votes and no sane politician would ever propose a relaxation in these laws, they get stricter every year. On the other hand, the US has one of the most sexualized tweens and teen-agers I have ever see…

I think a good part of that is the fundamentalist Christian ('reborn') element in the United States which commands a fair portion of the vote.

I'm not so sure about that. I would assume that these laws mostly command support from those who consider themselves "Law and Order" types. They're often conservative, but I think it crosses ideological lines pretty well.

Re: How to Destroy Someone's Life or They called me a child pornographer

#90
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's absurd; there is a distinct difference between seeing something that concerns you and becoming sexually aroused by said image. To suggest they are "consumers of child pornography" is just a bit rude... What is absurd is a situations where natural actions (taking photos of your children) become, randomly, life ruining [1]. You say my suggestion is rude but this is in fact exactly what happened to the author of…

If this were isolated it might not be such a huge issue, but it's happening quite a lot (relatively). No it isn't. You hear about some of these cases because, rightly, it occasionally hits the media but in general it is not happening a lot (comparatively anyway). People are getting too cagey over child nudity and prudish in general; but I don't think it is a result of either being a pedophile or sex offender. I would…

>No it isn't. You hear about some of these cases because, rightly, it occasionally hits the media but in general it is not happening a lot (comparatively anyway).

I put on the relatively tag for a reason. I heard of about 7 cases in one year, each one of them completely insane. That's a lot relative to where I'm living in Europe where I've heard of zero such cases. It's also a lot relative to how many should have happened, also zero.

>but I don't think it is a result of either being a pedophile or sex offender.

No, most people behave this way because they've been horribly and dangerously brain washed into behaving this way. So how do you "fix" them?

Imagine some less extreme behaviors that people could do and how it would be greeted. Imagine some intimate situation like a young man proposing to a young lady in a restaurant. Suddenly some jerk walks up and loudly farts in his face. How would this be reacted to? I can think of a lot of potential reactions, all of which would be extreme enough to let the drive by farter know that this kind of behavior is not acceptable.

Now lets step it up a notch. Someone urinates on the floor in the middle of a semi-crowded area. Now we're talking jail time, right? Maybe the person grew up in a culture where this was acceptable or even expected. Doesn't matter, they did something more extreme than the last example and will be greeted with a more extreme result.

Now back to our clerk. This person looked at some normal family photos and reacted by ruining someone's life. I think this person finding themselves the subject of such an investigation would be appropriate and effective at teaching people that this kind of bizarre behavior is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.

>Not to my mind. They are reacting irrationally to images that disturb him/her; it does not make them a sex offender.

Neither did the person taking the photos. Remember, my statement was if I had to pick between the two of them. Would you seriously pick the author in that situation? Then I have some bad news for you...

>if you saw, through a living room window, someone strangling another person whilst having sex with them would you call the police?

Bad example. Enough people are into such behavior that I absolutely would not call the police. Further, if I did I would fully expect to find myself on the business end of a peeping Tom case.

But if we changed your example to me just seeing someone being strangled then I would call the police. Because I saw something extreme happening. I would not call the police if I saw two people hugging. See the difference?

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