Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes • Hacker News Board

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#121

Post by ApolloFortyNine » Thu, Apr 27, 2017, 11:18 PM UTC

Veratyr wrote: post #56

chmaynard wrote: post #16

Southwest Airlines has the best website, best checked luggage policy, best change policy, and now no overbooking. The big four domestic airlines all treat coach passengers like cattle, but Southwest is the least predatory. Edit: Also, consider that Southwest is very profitable despite the fact that they don't have first class or business class sections on their aircraft. Yes, passengers pay different fares. But as fa…

To offer a counterpoint, Southwest also offers the worst boarding procedure, unless travelling alone or with kids. My wife and I were going on vacation and it was impossible to get seats together as we were pretty far back in the assigned line positions and by the time we got on the plane, there were no two vacant seats next to each other. After landing we discovered that checking in at the right time might get us fu…

If you check in as soon as you can (within about 5 mins or so), you get either the end of A or the very beginning of B. I've always been able to get a row to myself as long as you check in early.

Also, early bird check in is $15. Only one of you would need it (no one will fight you for a center)... So $30 for a round trip if you don't want to have to check in on time.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#122

Post by dawnerd » Thu, Apr 27, 2017, 11:19 PM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #111

bilboa wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's what "standby" tickets basically are. Some airlines would (not sure it's still a thing) sell you a "standby" ticket for cheaper than a normal ticket, which meant you show up and wait at the gate until near departure time, and then if there are any seats available they let you on the plane. If not you have to wait for the next flight.

Yeah, but the problem is that most tickets are now, in effect, standby, but not labeled as such. Hence why the parent suggested making the status (and the option to upgrade) clearer and more readily available.

On Delta the Basic Economy (E) basically are standby since you can't select your seat and are only assigned one at check in (or at gate? can't remember). It's not even that much cheaper than regular main cabin.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#123

Post by lucasmullens » Thu, Apr 27, 2017, 11:21 PM UTC

diogenescynic wrote: post #94

aresant wrote: post #12

This response feels knee jerk. It's been demonstrated in countless other threads (1) and articles (2) how economically important it is to overbook. Overbooking is central to airline profitability and their ability to provide flexibility - like partial refunds, or SW's "open tickets" policy on business select. As a consumer I appreciate these things and find them incredibly useful. United's response of "We'll push the…

>how economically important it is to overbook. I still don't believe this claim. A 727 seats 129, a 787 seats 290, and a 747 seats 366. That means it only makes flights slightly less expensive. I only travel a few times a year and I'd rather pay 2% more than get bumped off my flight. Why do we allow airlines to overbook but not movie theaters or other industries? This seems like an artificial advantage we've given th…

Paying 2% more and getting bumped off your flight is a false dichotomy. United's approach of offering $10k avoids both.

I don't see a reason to waste seats if it can be avoided without hurting consumers. Wasting seats is inefficient economically and bad for the environment.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#124

Post by sshanky » Thu, Apr 27, 2017, 11:21 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #110

pauldino wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've restricted it slightly: now you have to notify them at least 10 minutes before the flight. But still no penalties - I really hope they don't have to do away with that policy since that's the main thing I like about Southwest.

That's still better than most other airlines. I'll definitely be considering SW from now on. I'm assuming they only do domestic flights?

They recently added quite a few international flights [1]. They now offer service to Aruba, Belize, Cabo San Lucas/Los Cabos, Cancun, Cuba (not sure if it has started yet), Grand Cayman Island, Liberia, Costa Rica, Mexico City, Montego Bay, Nassau, Puerto Vallarta, Punta Cana, San Jose, and Costa Rica.

[1] https://www.southwest.com/international/

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#125

Post by dawnerd » Thu, Apr 27, 2017, 11:22 PM UTC

rlanday wrote: post #96

pdelbarba wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it gets really high, I imagine passengers would do their best to drive it up. Would you volunteer if the offer was $2k out of a $100k vs a $10k pool? It defies classic game theory to an extent, but humans like to roll the dice.

You're going to collude with ~100 random strangers to prevent anyone else from taking the offer until it gets to the level you want it to get to, and then agree to split it somehow? Ha ha ha.

Last year when I was flying back from LIH this happened but on a very small scale. These two guys both were joking about just driving the price up and so they did, all the way to the max Guy got a free hotel stay and food as well since there was only one flight per day to LAX.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#126

Post by lucasmullens » Thu, Apr 27, 2017, 11:23 PM UTC

brandonmenc wrote: post #90

WillPostForFood wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter-counter point: Southwest boards faster, by far, than airlines using the standard pre-assigned method. That means less time sitting on the plane, or waiting to board the place. Also means less abuse of selling seat upgrades.

Anecdotally, boarding speed is not my major complaint - failing to secure an aisle seat, however, is.

Fast boarding speeds lowers their cost. That's one of the reasons Southwest can often be much cheaper than other airlines.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#127

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Apr 27, 2017, 11:26 PM UTC

WillPostForFood wrote: post #74

Veratyr wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To offer a counterpoint, Southwest also offers the worst boarding procedure, unless travelling alone or with kids. My wife and I were going on vacation and it was impossible to get seats together as we were pretty far back in the assigned line positions and by the time we got on the plane, there were no two vacant seats next to each other. After landing we discovered that checking in at the right time might get us fu…

Counter-counter point: Southwest boards faster, by far, than airlines using the standard pre-assigned method. That means less time sitting on the plane, or waiting to board the place. Also means less abuse of selling seat upgrades.

It also would seem to mean they can either schedule flights closer together or have additional buffer to prevent cascading flight delays, either of which is a win.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#128

Post by Naritai » Thu, Apr 27, 2017, 11:30 PM UTC

codydh wrote: post #75

Veratyr wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To offer a counterpoint, Southwest also offers the worst boarding procedure, unless travelling alone or with kids. My wife and I were going on vacation and it was impossible to get seats together as we were pretty far back in the assigned line positions and by the time we got on the plane, there were no two vacant seats next to each other. After landing we discovered that checking in at the right time might get us fu…

I agree 100%. I often hear people talk about how Southwest offers such a great experience. I find the boarding process frustrating (and no more efficient, unfortunately) and the staff no better than my usual airline—either far less friendly, or hokey in a very contrived way.

Canned friendliness is, IMO, worse than brusque professionalism.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#129

Post by zeroer » Thu, Apr 27, 2017, 11:30 PM UTC

johngalt wrote: post #57

The problem isn't overbooking. The problem is not auctioning the seats higher when overbooked. I've seen a number of overbooked southwest flights and people can't line up fast enough for a $300 flight credit + next available flight. I can't imagine it ever going over $1k. IMHO if any airline should continue overbooking it's SWA. No first class, no assigned seats. Most of the flights are short range with multiple flig…

Yea, I agree the problem is not auctioning seats high enough. But the proximate issue is that United didn't offer cash, but $800 in United Fun Bux that are worthless for most people. The vouchers they were offering were only valid at dates United decided. The vouchers expired after a year. And they are offered in coupons for which you can only use one coupon per flight, and the excess value is lost.

Practically all news outlets are reporting that "United offered $800 in compensation", but the reality is that it's closer to $0 in compensation. It's disingenuous to call it "compensation".

A better move on the airline's part would be to offer some amount of airline credit, and then half that in cold, hard cash, at least up to $2,700 credit / $1,350 cash, which is what they have to give you for an involuntary bump.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#130

Post by econnors » Thu, Apr 27, 2017, 11:33 PM UTC

chmaynard wrote: post #16

Southwest Airlines has the best website, best checked luggage policy, best change policy, and now no overbooking. The big four domestic airlines all treat coach passengers like cattle, but Southwest is the least predatory. Edit: Also, consider that Southwest is very profitable despite the fact that they don't have first class or business class sections on their aircraft. Yes, passengers pay different fares. But as fa…

Southwest was a case study in a business class I took in college. Our materials credited their success to their management style of encouraging enjoyable, fun behavior from their employees and giving them the freedom to "do the right thing".

It may be a stretch, but I imagine if United employees felt they had the freedom to circumvent policy to "do the right thing", the situation could've been avoided.