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H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

economist.com

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Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#121

Post by OpenDrapery »

sidlls wrote: post #94
humanrebar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, maybe the U.S. would have better employment among young men if the "IT is in demand and steady work" meme found a place here.

For the last several years "learn to code" has been a meme (President Obama spoke to this on multiple occasions), and the "T" in "STEM" is "Technology." I don't think the "meme" is the problem. Also, while I definitely am much more well paid as an engineer than I ever would have been as an academic, the quality of employment the field (in terms of opportunities available, working conditions, peers, and other factors)…

Agreed on the quality of employment. It's quite eye opening when you realize that a company will pay you $100k salary, basically to "own" you.

Show up for work at the designated time, sit in your assigned seat. Sometimes you will get interesting work. Most times you will get menial tasks. Sometimes you won't get any work at all.

After the first month, you're thinking, "Uh, I was here about the software developer position? Are we going to be building any software?"

le sigh

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#122

Post by raitom »

aub3bhat wrote: post #84
camus2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which does not make the following statement true : > Because citizens of countries other than india and china don't really need h1 visas to work in US.

Yes they don't the Green Card even for EB-3 category are current for most countries except India, China & Mexico. Arguing on semantic grounds is frankly expressing white privilege. Just like people who argue that some segregation laws didn't explicitly mention black people. And thus were good. Even within American lawmakers the current per country system is considered a mistake and several legislations including the…

It takes years to get a green card on EB-3 (same on EB-2) if your country is Current. Most companies don't want to wait 2+ years and pay $10k in lawyer's fees.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#123

Post by adekok »

koolba wrote: post #40
adekok wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

something something democracy . The country is run (roughly) on something resembling democracy and equality. If, instead, the ethos changes to "more power to people who pay more", we give up any pretence at democracy. We might as well just advertise that politicians are for sale. Which the mostly are right now, but at least they have to pay lip service to the people. Once that's gone, the culture of the country will…

> something something democracy. > The country is run (roughly) on something resembling democracy and equality. If, instead, the ethos changes to "more power to people who pay more", we give up any pretence at democracy. We might as well just advertise that politicians are for sale. What's not democratic about optimizing need based upon projected tax revenue? Are we discriminating against "poor companies"? Would you…

> What's not democratic about optimizing need based upon projected tax revenue? Are we discriminating against "poor companies"? Would you classify companies that allow their employees to work remotely doing the same?

The unstated assumption in your questions seems to be that optimizing for revenue should be the #1 (or a high) priority for a government.

If so, why not just cut all social programs? They're expensive, and the poor people can find jobs, right?

My leaning is more towards the idea that governments should optimize for something else. Perhaps "the greater good", however the citizens decide that. Money is always an issue, but optimizing for tax revenue is a little to inhuman for me to be comfortable with it.

> It's in their interests to raise the price of said foreign labor.

... to artificially raise the price of foreign labor. Many companies now are trying to artificially lower the price of foreign labor, through lobbying, etc.

And the foreign labor market is in no way free. When I worked in the Bay area, it was well known that many H1B holders were paid low salaries, and treated like crap. Because they wanted to stay in the country, and were willing to accept hardship in order to do so.

That artificially lowered the labor cost, and lowered salaries. If they were paid the same as local talent, the artificial low cost would go away, and more local talent would be hired.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#124

Post by RileyKyeden »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #117
anjc wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just the US too. It's the same all over Western Europe. What sticks in my craw even more is that, to legitimise the process of issuing more visas, companies and governments have to continually say "there aren't enough STEM and IT grads! Do STEM and IT everyone!" knowing full well that there wont be jobs for these kids at the end of it.

Anecdata: I'm in US. Three boys, all graduated Engineers. All have jobs, easy as pie. One had $30/hr part-time remote work during last year of college. Have to move to get the right job maybe, or take what you can find, but for various reasons they're all very happy. My Niece is in a field that's chronically low on qualified Engineers - she designs and installs automation in factories. So many facets including mechan…

There's a reason anecdotes are useless in these kinds of discussions. Your family probably benefited from network effects: one person gets a job, then provides industry contacts and references to the next, and so on. Your family's tremendous luck should not be mistaken for a reasonable expectation.

Someone will be along with an equivalent tale about how they and everyone they know looked for a STEM job for years and gave up. That's why anecdata isn't actually a thing.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#125

Post by conanbatt »

loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

Honestly, tying the qualification of H1B to salary only works as some sort of state-sponsored unionization.

Not to mention the salaries of H1B employees are public, and that they are bound to a company meaning they have less bargaining power. And that the sampling is completely different, one is more of an homogeneous american citizen and the other is basically every country in the world, with varying degrees of knowledge,education, expertise, cultural fit,language penalties, relocation costs, etc. EDIT: and remember, for a company to issue an H1B, it costs them many thousands of dollars, that the future employee has to be paying for it to be worth it.

Increasing restrictions helps american tech workers as much as Trump adding a tariff on mexican imports. It hurts consumers, it hurts companies, and it gives americans a small benefit.

I can understand american steel workers wanting protectionism , but i cant understand why people that work creating products world-wide like google, facebook, apple, amazon and microsoft, can find it consistent to believe in protectionism.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#126

Post by jackgolding »

calvinbhai wrote: post #71
humanrebar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, maybe the U.S. would have better employment among young men if the "IT is in demand and steady work" meme found a place here.

Americans have many better options than IT to make a good living. Many of those options though, are slowly getting eaten up by tech (Amazon, Walmart - Jet) In India, IT sector escaped the clutches of red tape, and thrived. So it became a very good option to make a living.

For those who don't have the equity required to invest in a medical or legal education - what are those options? I'd imagine banking is largely based on what school you attend.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#127

Post by JoeAltmaier »

RileyKyeden wrote: post #124
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdata: I'm in US. Three boys, all graduated Engineers. All have jobs, easy as pie. One had $30/hr part-time remote work during last year of college. Have to move to get the right job maybe, or take what you can find, but for various reasons they're all very happy. My Niece is in a field that's chronically low on qualified Engineers - she designs and installs automation in factories. So many facets including mechan…

There's a reason anecdotes are useless in these kinds of discussions. Your family probably benefited from network effects: one person gets a job, then provides industry contacts and references to the next, and so on. Your family's tremendous luck should not be mistaken for a reasonable expectation. Someone will be along with an equivalent tale about how they and everyone they know looked for a STEM job for years and…

Exactly one case of 'network effect' - one brother got little brother hired on at startup as intern during the summer. Others all lived at far ends of the country from one another, in entirely different fields.

There're other effects, things labeled 'white privilege' or 'middle class ethics' I imagine. So no, not a recipe for escaping poverty or anything. I was the son of a dirt farmer in Iowa (like my sisters and brothers), but worked in Silicon Valley when young so my boys didn't have the disadvantages I did.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#128

Post by jackgolding »

OpenDrapery wrote: post #121
sidlls wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the last several years "learn to code" has been a meme (President Obama spoke to this on multiple occasions), and the "T" in "STEM" is "Technology." I don't think the "meme" is the problem. Also, while I definitely am much more well paid as an engineer than I ever would have been as an academic, the quality of employment the field (in terms of opportunities available, working conditions, peers, and other factors)…

Agreed on the quality of employment. It's quite eye opening when you realize that a company will pay you $100k salary, basically to "own" you. Show up for work at the designated time, sit in your assigned seat. Sometimes you will get interesting work. Most times you will get menial tasks. Sometimes you won't get any work at all. After the first month, you're thinking, "Uh, I was here about the software developer posi…

Curious as to which fields you think have it better? (i.e. quality of employment is far greater than the effort to become employable)

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#129

Post by beachstartup »

dukeluke wrote: post #91
humanrebar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, maybe the U.S. would have better employment among young men if the "IT is in demand and steady work" meme found a place here.

As a young man in America, I would only recommend this if you both live in a tech city and hold a degree. I have neither, and so despite my ability to develop software, I am not taken seriously by employers.

i started out in tech as a teenager doing data entry and software installs. if you haven't done a similar job yet for at least a year or two, re-evaluate your expectations.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#130

Post by rodionos »

raverbashing wrote: post #107
rodionos wrote: post #24

Number of H-1B visas issued for Indian citizens, 1997-2015: https://apps.axibase.com/chartlab/1bc51064 Top H-1B countries: https://apps.axibase.com/chartlab/04040e14

Can't Mexicans get a TN visa?

12K+ TN visas issued to Mexican applicants in CY 2015.
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