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H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

economist.com

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Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#71
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the incentive system. I have never been known for my lack of directness and in given so, I used to work with an Indian developer who was very good at his job. So one day I just flat out asked him, I said Karthick why do a good portion of Indian developers suck, his response floored me. Without missing a beat he responded, look it's a misaligned incentive system. When I go back to India the first questi…

For what it's worth, maybe the U.S. would have better employment among young men if the "IT is in demand and steady work" meme found a place here.

Americans have many better options than IT to make a good living. Many of those options though, are slowly getting eaten up by tech (Amazon, Walmart - Jet)

In India, IT sector escaped the clutches of red tape, and thrived. So it became a very good option to make a living.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Running a business is nightmare. Sometimes I wished I was in the 9-5 daily grind. Top that with asking to pay more than market rates and most startups would collapse. 44% of unicorn startups in Silicon Valley employ H1b or were started by them. And a lot of them Iran too(which was strangely banned by Trump)

The Iran thing is too bad. Besides our governments not getting along, it's possibly the most advanced, moderate, and educated Muslim majority country in the middle east. Maybe second to Turkey, but Iran seems to have a lot more engineers. I've known a few Iranian engineers and both of them were excellent. They didn't talk about politics either, the ones that come over here at least obviously don't have anything again…

Honestly, both Khomeini and Ahmadinejad did quite well in convincing many countries that Iran isn't so "moderate". And violating the Vienna Convention/embassy extraterritoriality is rarely good for diplomatic relations. There were also U.N. sanctions in place until roughly a year ago. So downplaying it as "not getting along" is a bit of an understatement. But I'm also hopeful relations will improve in the future.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#73

Because citizens of countries other than india and china don't really need h1 visas to work in US. Many countries have treaty work visas (Canada / Mexico citizens can work on TB visa) And those who study in US, if their employer starts green card process they can get their EAD before OPT expires. Only Indians and Chinese have to rely on h1b.

> Because citizens of countries other than india and china don't really need h1 visas to work in US.

A complete lie. We in Europe are bound by the exact same rules as the Indians or the Chinese when it comes to immigration to US.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#74

Because citizens of countries other than india and china don't really need h1 visas to work in US. Many countries have treaty work visas (Canada / Mexico citizens can work on TB visa) And those who study in US, if their employer starts green card process they can get their EAD before OPT expires. Only Indians and Chinese have to rely on h1b.

> Only Indians and Chinese have to rely on h1b. Really?! You're excluding all of Europe, Russia, Australia/NZ, Latin America, Africa Yes, those people have developers, yes some of them are talented enough to want to apply for an H1B. But they have to stand in line because Tata needs another 1000 people to be exploited for cheap

Australians can get an E-3 visa - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_visa

But the rest of your point still holds.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#75
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

something something democracy . The country is run (roughly) on something resembling democracy and equality. If, instead, the ethos changes to "more power to people who pay more", we give up any pretence at democracy. We might as well just advertise that politicians are for sale. Which the mostly are right now, but at least they have to pay lip service to the people. Once that's gone, the culture of the country will…

Ok democracy. Let's put H1 policy to a vote. Democracy has nothing to do with equality of outcomes: it's about the representation of the citizens. Why can't I easily get an oil exploration license but some multi-national can? I can't afford millions of dollars. But with a license, I'd have a scarce resource and could easily raise money to drill. Why aren't radio frequency spectrums allocated by a lottery system? Why…

> Making third Reich comparisons, even tangentially, seems like an unnecessary Godwin.

Insults like this are unethical, especially when you didn't bother reading the link I posted.

The reference was to France, not to Nazi Germany.

I've seen rather a lot more of this on HN recently. People who automatically assume that the comments they're replying to hide some kind of nefarious evil intent.

Stop it. It's anti-social and abusive.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#76

Have there been attempts at pumping H1B money and similar efforts into schools? I've always wondered if we want minorities to code and we are worried about job loss in the US, why not stop dumping money into hiring foreigners and instead dump it into CS programs at community colleges? It would take some time before you could build up a domestic work force as talented as foreigners, but would it not solve several issu…

It's not the business responsibility to train Americans/Europeans/Indians. A business has to respond to it's shareholders who don't ask the question "How many of our nationality/religion/race have you employed" but "What's the share price" It's the government's responsibility to train people and H1b failure is government's responsibility. Most companies dont even pay tax, do you really expect them to hire ONLY Americ…

Shareholder Theory is not the only lens to view the responsibilities of a business. Stakeholder Theory describes a much wider range of accountable parties including employees, communities, government, and the environment. Under Stakeholder Theory, a company would indeed have an obligation to its employees and community to train new workers. (see corporate governance in Germany as an example)

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#77
post #43

Isn't a H-1B a form of indentured servitude? As in, if you change jobs you lose your visa? If yes, you don't get the competent ones but the cheap ones who have no choice. The good ones work on their terms for whomever they please. Edit: combine that with kls's answer about incentives, and you see why this visa system isn't quite working.

The same applies for Americans working in Europe as highly skilled migrants. A company sponsors your visa, and when that job ends (like the company shuts down, for example), you must go find another company willing to sponsor you. Or if you're fortunate, as with Americans in Netherlands, you can start your own business easily and get a freelance visa.

But the point is the same - you work at the place that sponsored you, or you risk having to go back home.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#78
post #30

What's the argument against using an auction for H1-B visas rather than a lottery? That'd maximize the tax collected from their salaries and ensure the salaries are on par with the going rate for said workers. Arguably it's in the interests of everyone besides companies trying to get cheaper labor via H1-B visas. The only counterpoint I've ever heard is " It's not fair for company XYZ in low cost of living Podunk, US…

The objective of the visa is to enable business. It is beneficial to America that business flourishes in America. If a pharma business is viable only if it pays $100k to its researchers and if it is being hamstrung by lack of researchers in America it doesn't matter that a software engineer can charge $200k for his services.

The pharma researchers may argue that this should present an upward price pressure on their salaries but their industry isn't solely driven by salaries alone.

At the higher salary that gets a company enough researchers, the company may become unviable. In addition, if there are only 100 researchers and there are 1000 jobs, rising salaries will still leave 900 jobs unfulfilled.

These are things one doesn't care about if one is a researcher because systemic economic slowdown will take a while to catch up to you because there are more jobs than researchers.

But thinking above that in the long term, it is advantageous to have more researchers since more jobs filled leads to more successful companies which leads to growth.

In truth it's more complicated. There are a large number of unqualified people who carry the credentials claiming they're qualified. For the same title, skill levels vary substantially. This is why people believe good lawyers are far better than average lawyers, that good doctors exist, and that the concept of a good software engineer exists.

This means that while there is apparent supply, there is no real supply. This makes the problem less apparent but no less real.

The government distorts markets for its own reasons and one of them is the long term economic health of the country. The most efficient distribution may be that most companies should be in Africa. The government doesn't want that. It wants companies in the US. It organizes in the long term to allow this.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#79
post #73

Because citizens of countries other than india and china don't really need h1 visas to work in US. Many countries have treaty work visas (Canada / Mexico citizens can work on TB visa) And those who study in US, if their employer starts green card process they can get their EAD before OPT expires. Only Indians and Chinese have to rely on h1b.

> Because citizens of countries other than india and china don't really need h1 visas to work in US. A complete lie. We in Europe are bound by the exact same rules as the Indians or the Chinese when it comes to immigration to US.

Except European countries greatly benefitted from Chinese Exclusion Act. The legacy of which still exists today in form of per country quota.

In fact when passing the Immigration Act of 1965 (untill then only few hundred indians/Chinese were allowed.) The then president sought to reassure people that country won't be overrun by Indians.

https://www.saada.org/tides/article/20151001-4458

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#80
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because citizens of countries other than india and china don't really need h1 visas to work in US. A complete lie. We in Europe are bound by the exact same rules as the Indians or the Chinese when it comes to immigration to US.

Except European countries greatly benefitted from Chinese Exclusion Act. The legacy of which still exists today in form of per country quota. In fact when passing the Immigration Act of 1965 (untill then only few hundred indians/Chinese were allowed.) The then president sought to reassure people that country won't be overrun by Indians. https://www.saada.org/tides/article/20151001-4458

Which does not make the following statement true :

> Because citizens of countries other than india and china don't really need h1 visas to work in US.

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