A particularly fitting past discussion in HN about among other things Amazon:https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4195136
Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
121–130 of 223 posts
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
HR is never your friend. Aside from the job they're required to do, HR usually attracts people with despicable morals and class. They wont hesitate on lying to you, set you up on to something, threaten you, whatever it takes to get what they (personally) want. Stay clear of HR, that is true for 99% of jobs.
"Stay clear of HR, that is true for 99% of jobs." Having met at least 50+ people in HR who aren't what like you say, i'm going to call complete bullshit on this. I don't think you have anywhere near the kind of data to generalize an entire profession across all industries :) The vast majority of people i've met who feel like you do are people who were, IMHO fired pretty fairly, but are ashamed to admit that maybe the…
Ok, let's play pedantic DannyBee.
>I don't think you have anywhere near the kind of data to generalize an entire profession across all industries :)
>The vast majority of people i've met who feel like you do are people who were, IMHO fired pretty fairly, but are ashamed to admit that maybe they weren't performing as well as they think, so they blame the system.
We're gonna need a source for that too! Or wait, were you discrediting one opinion with another one?
>"Stay clear of HR, that is true for 99% of jobs."
>Having met at least 50+ people in HR who aren't what like you say, i'm going to call complete bullshit on this.
Ever knew of what the '%' sign means? I can get you 50+ people that are in jail and that were later proved to be innocent. Does that mean we should set all of them free?
Waiting for your downvote or a reasonable argument :^)
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#123I'm in the process of joining Amazon as a software engineer manager. I don't know how to respond to this article and if to continue the process with them.
It's purely anecdotal, but it's been a well known "fact" within my circle of developers that working for Amazon is a death march and not something you should consider unless you are desperate or intend to make it a short stint where they are offering a title and pay increase worth the 1-2 years of hell that working there would be.
True or not, perception is reality and Amazon has attained a rather poor reputation in the circles I travel. I have considered positions with them in the past but because of my perception of what working for them would mean, I've rejected several for not being worth it (pay increase not big enough), and one due to simple logistics (they wanted me in a city I wouldn't move to).
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#124> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…
Here is what I've learned in my time on earth:
> you can't change the system but you can change the system you are in
Just leave.
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#125I've been reading various comments about this around the internet and many people are saying they will stop ordering from Amazon because of it. These white collar workers are highly paid, and not forced to be there. Most of them could easily find another job someplace else (and it sounds like many do). I just can't feel bad for them. If you don't want to work throughout your vacation, go find another job that won't m…
I will keep ordering from McDonalds because their food is the cheapest while still tasting good.
I will keep buying gasoline from Alberta Tar Sands and fracking because it is the cheapest at powering my motor vehicle.
I will keep getting my marijuana from a mexican drug cartel because it is more potent and cheaper than from other sources.
... way to be the rational economic actor who gives zero shits about externalities and hard-to-measure but obviously occurring consequences. Good job, dude.
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#126I've been reading various comments about this around the internet and many people are saying they will stop ordering from Amazon because of it. These white collar workers are highly paid, and not forced to be there. Most of them could easily find another job someplace else (and it sounds like many do). I just can't feel bad for them. If you don't want to work throughout your vacation, go find another job that won't m…
Implied in your comment is that employees (assuming they are employable white collar employees) are empowered economic actors. They keep choosing to work there. I think the reality of the employee-employer relationship is that employees don't have the sort of power, as one would have as a customer, for example. Part of the reasons are probably explainable economically. It's a fairly illiquid market for employees beca…
> In a lot of ways, "if you don't like it, get another job" like "if you don't like it, get another country."
There are big differences between the two unless you live in a state that borders Canada. In most cases, getting a new job does not require you to relocate far away or significantly change your lifestyle.
> It's a fairly illiquid market for employees because the cost of getting to an agreement, negotiating terms (never-mind sampling) is very high.
Is this cost higher than staying miserable? About the only thing I can think of for being forced to stay employed with Amazon is to complete the "two year tour of duty" for your resume.
I'd agree with you more if we were discussing uneducated and unskilled workers. However unless I missed something I feel that we were talking about skilled and educated workers that are in demand by many companies.
That said I'm not condoning any company that has bad practices and I'm still sympathetic to anyone that gets poorly treated at any company, while at the same time I feel that staying with a company that makes you unhappy as an highly in demand worker is a conscious choice you make as an adult. I don't feel that most people have work contracts. Employment is at will for both the employer and employee.
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
HR is never your friend. Aside from the job they're required to do, HR usually attracts people with despicable morals and class. They wont hesitate on lying to you, set you up on to something, threaten you, whatever it takes to get what they (personally) want. Stay clear of HR, that is true for 99% of jobs.
"Stay clear of HR, that is true for 99% of jobs." Having met at least 50+ people in HR who aren't what like you say, i'm going to call complete bullshit on this. I don't think you have anywhere near the kind of data to generalize an entire profession across all industries :) The vast majority of people i've met who feel like you do are people who were, IMHO fired pretty fairly, but are ashamed to admit that maybe the…
Found the HR rep
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
As long as you're not under contract, you might as well find out for yourself if you like it or not.
It's getting to the point where having Amazon on your resume is a negative, though.
Not true - I'd say 9/10 Seattle area companies would LOVE to have an ex-Amazon employee join the team. It has a major reputation locally for "put in your 2 years then work wherever you want in Seattle"
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#129> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…
There is book a called Corporate Confidential [1], written by a former HR person. One of most significant ideas there is that HR is (from the perspective of an employee) not your friend, but rather an enemy. They exist to protect the company, not you. Basically, going to HR is a quick way to get fired (for legal reasons, mind you) or kill your career. Whole book is highly depressing, but very useful if you want to tr…
That book is golden - it explains clearly the incentives of the players in the corporate world with concise examples. It should be compulsory reading for every corporate employee, not just ones in pathological environments, so everyone would understand what the true rules of the game are.
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#130"BREAKING: Hugely successful big co has ex employees not fully satisfied, willing to criticize it. It also has current employees who appreciate it, willing to defend it. Will keep you posted."
....and thus it all cancels out? Show your work.
It's just all so anecdotal. Finding five frustrated employees of a company with things would not be hard to do, and the response pointed out how many of the major complaints were severely taken out of context. It just reeks if someone trying to make a story when there is none.