Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

updates.thunderbird.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 403 posts

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#111

Post by squidbeak »

narag wrote: post #47

After reading a bunch of negative comments here, let me add a little on the bright side. I've been using Thunderbird for many years, currently both at home and at work to manage gmail accounts, pop at home, imap in the office. It works great for me, with a few annoyances but nothing serious. As for the donations, Thunderbird seems to be somehow apart from Mozilla now, so I don't think much about specific org structur…

I'm another appreciative long-term user. There are things about it that piss me off (especially the absence of a comfortable reading mode - with a quarter of an ordinary screen given over to ui and message headers) but it's been dependable over decades.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#112

Post by account42 »

input_sh wrote: post #51
swiftcoder wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For what it's worth because legal names are confusingly similar, this is a legal subsidiary of Mozilla that is specific to Thunderbird Right, I get that, but why is it for-profit ? Fund raising is hard enough for nonprofits, convincing people to donate their hard-earned cash to a for-profit is on a whole different level.

I'm definitely not involved with any of them to know for sure, but my guess would be that's because non-profits come with a lot more regulatory overhead in comparison to for-profits of a similar scale. Not saying that's bad in any way, but for a team that just wants to build the damn thing, for-profits are absolutely less of a hassle.

Sure but if they want people to donate they better be ready to explain their decisions. All that extra overhead is there to ensure that the nonprofit is actually a nonprofit doing what it says it's doing after all.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#113

Post by monooso »

throw934ork4k wrote: post #104
code-blooded wrote: post #11

Campaigns like this need more info. This page doesn't answer any basic questions. How much money do you currently get? How much money do you need and how will you use it? Does it even go directly to Thunderbird development or will be used up by Mozilla for other projects? Edit: I found some info here: https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/donate/ Still, my point stands that communication around it should be super clear a…

[flagged]

For the avoidance of doubt, you won't donate to Thunderbird because you disagree with the following policy?

> We do not discriminate on the basis of race [...], religion [...], gender, gender identity, gender expression, color, national origin, pregnancy, ancestry, domestic partner status, disability, sexual orientation, age, genetic predisposition, medical condition, marital status, citizenship status, military or veteran status, or any other basis covered by applicable laws. Mozilla will not tolerate discrimination or harassment based on any of these characteristics or any other unlawful behavior, conduct, or purpose.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#114

Post by bachmeier »

narag wrote: post #47

After reading a bunch of negative comments here, let me add a little on the bright side. I've been using Thunderbird for many years, currently both at home and at work to manage gmail accounts, pop at home, imap in the office. It works great for me, with a few annoyances but nothing serious. As for the donations, Thunderbird seems to be somehow apart from Mozilla now, so I don't think much about specific org structur…

I've been using Thunderbird for decades, I've donated in the past, and am likely to donate again. With that out of the way, the lack of transparency as to what happens to my money kills the incentive to donate.

"How will my gift be used?"

"Thunderbird is the leading open source email and productivity app that is free for business and personal use. Your gift helps ensure it stays that way, and supports ongoing development."

Well that tells me exactly nothing. This might not be as big an issue if they were separate from Mozilla. To be concrete, and focusing only on the development of Firefox, there's now an AI chatbot in the sidebar. I think that's a good addition. However, when the only options are proprietary services, it's hard for me to see the point of Firefox. It would be easier to get out my credit card for Thunderbird if I didn't have those thoughts in the back of my mind. As it stands, my donation might be going to fund the Mozilla CEO's salary.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#115

Post by Hasnep »

throw934ork4k wrote: post #104
code-blooded wrote: post #11

Campaigns like this need more info. This page doesn't answer any basic questions. How much money do you currently get? How much money do you need and how will you use it? Does it even go directly to Thunderbird development or will be used up by Mozilla for other projects? Edit: I found some info here: https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/donate/ Still, my point stands that communication around it should be super clear a…

[flagged]

You won't donate because they will try not to discriminate when hiring? It's illegal to discriminate on things like race, sex and gender when hiring, so pretty much every company avoids it.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#116

Post by squidbeak »

criticalfault wrote: post #109
smarnach wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you come to the conclusion that 750 people is a lot to build a web browser? The Chrome-adjacent teams at Google are about 4,000 people, and that doesn't even include all the people at Google providing infrastructure (e.g. servers, workplace, HR, legal etc.). Comparing Firefox to Chromium-based browsers doesn't make much sense since these browsers don't develop their own web engine.

take the reference of ladybird. in a couple of years they built the engine from scratch. it's going to soon enter Alpha. how many people from ladybird built that engine? about 10? all while everyone has said that modern web makes this task impossible

> it's going to soon enter Alpha

Perhaps other browser makers want to move faster than Ladybird.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#117

Post by account42 »

Skywalker13 wrote: post #52
reddalo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla is so sad. They have a lot of money and they could fund the development of both Firefox and Thunderbird. Yet, they decide to waste almost $7 million per year to pay a CEO and God knows what else.

like all Big Tech

Except this "big tech" larper is supposedly fully owned by a nonprofit.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#118

Post by garaetjjte »

smarnach wrote: post #75
upofadown wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are an entity separate from Mozilla: * https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/01/thunderbirds-new-home/

They are not entirely separate from Mozilla. The MZLA Technologies Corporation is a for-profit subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation. They have access to some of Mozilla's common infrastructure, but are otherwise entirely funded by donations. Donations to MZLA only fund Thunderbird and no other products.

Seems fine if you can donate to Thunderbird development. Compared to Firefox, where I don't think it's possible to donate to development at all (only to Mozilla activism side).

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#119

Post by Hasnep »

account42 wrote: post #107

The other day I cam to my computer with Thunderbird showing me a full page screen instead of my email list that I had open before. Not going to donate to projects that disrespect users like that - my computer is not your advertising space even if you consider your ads "helpful information".

I'm pretty sure they show it something like once a year, and it takes two seconds to close it, if you can't spare two seconds of your life every year for something you get for free then you were never going to donate anything.
Post reply on HN