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Show HN: Openkoda – Open–source, private, Salesforce alternative

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Re: Show HN: Openkoda – Open–source, private, Salesforce alternative

#111

Post by rufugee »

ensignavenger wrote: post #91
sakesun wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. The enterprise part is much smaller than the open source part.

I'm not sure how you are measuring "size", but I was going on features. Though I haven't done a formal review of which features are open and closed, and the xompany doesn't appear to document it anywhere, so I may be wrong. It seems like when I have looked into it in the past mostly it is a core framework with a few open source apps and whole bucnh of closed ones and the marketing doesn't clearly state what is open a…

Why would you make a definitive statement about a product without doing the research to make sure you know what you're talking about?

Re: Show HN: Openkoda – Open–source, private, Salesforce alternative

#112

Post by ensignavenger »

rufugee wrote: post #111
ensignavenger wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how you are measuring "size", but I was going on features. Though I haven't done a formal review of which features are open and closed, and the xompany doesn't appear to document it anywhere, so I may be wrong. It seems like when I have looked into it in the past mostly it is a core framework with a few open source apps and whole bucnh of closed ones and the marketing doesn't clearly state what is open a…

Why would you make a definitive statement about a product without doing the research to make sure you know what you're talking about?

If you expect every comment on this site to be backed by a massive amount of reasearch, then you are in the wrong place. I have looked into Odoo several times, I was expressing my impressions of the product. Sorry if that wasn't clear in my initial comment.

Re: Show HN: Openkoda – Open–source, private, Salesforce alternative

#113

Post by xuancanh »

lelanthran wrote: post #99
xuancanh wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just a meme. The developer experience in Java is worse compared to some other popular programming languages like JavaScript, Go, Python, etc. The language is a bit verbose, and the compiling speed is slow, hence the development speed is slower. Java developers tend to overly abstract things, so the code tends to be unnecessarily complicated. The JVM also has a high memory footprint, the startup speed is slow…

> The developer experience in Java is worse compared to some other popular programming languages like JavaScript, Go, Python, Wait, what? Go, maybe. But the dev experience in languages that are only able to catch errors at runtime , like Javascript and Python, are painful! Looking at existing Python/Node.js codebases, half the automated tests are there simply to catch errors that statically typed languages catch for…

Perhaps your experience with them was a long time ago. I agree that working with dynamic typing languages can be painful, but Python has had type hints since version 3.5, and JavaScript has Flow, or you can use TypeScript.

Re: Show HN: Openkoda – Open–source, private, Salesforce alternative

#114

Post by xuancanh »

actionfromafar wrote: post #104
xuancanh wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that Go or Kotlin is better than Java in all of those aspects. I'm just saying that Kotlin, GraalVM exists because Java, JVM have certain issues or limitation. For Golang, I'm just saying that the developer experience in Go is better. It's not just my personal experience, you can find the same result in any developer survey.

I clearly wasn’t surveyed. I don’t even like Java but I would need a an extender to my ten foot pole before touching Go. (Unless we are talking microcontroller embedded software, and I only could choose between Java and Go.)

I initially disliked Go as well, but it's a language that can only be truly appreciated when you start using it. Many of its advantages come from from its simplicity, explicitness, fast compilation speed, single executable binary, and some opinionated choices made by its authors. Unless you're working with a legacy system, Go (or Rust) is the preferred choice nowadays for distributed systems and system softwares (Kubernestes, TiDB, traefik, to name a few). It's also the default choice for numerous internet companies like Uber, ByteDance, and Monzo.

Here is a survey if you'd like to participate this year, but I don't think it will significantly alter the results.

https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022#technology-most-loved-d...

Re: Show HN: Openkoda – Open–source, private, Salesforce alternative

#115

Post by TheNewsIsHere »

arunabha wrote: post #84

Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see any links to any documentation beyond the surface level. The closest seems to be the technology page at https://openkoda.com/technology/ which seems to be aiming to sell to budget owners. Nothing wrong with marketing to budget owners, but if the selling point vs Odoo is 'it's easier to build your app on OpenKoda, then deep and detailed developer docs are a must. Documentation is…

We use Odoo and love it. It would take moving mountains to get us off of it (short of predatory sales/pricing/licensing shenanigans anyway). It is fantastic and truly one of my favorite pieces of software. But man, does Odoo have a convoluted ecosystem. There’s no one place to learn about the product and if you self-host then the documentation might as well not exist for the small number of aggravatingly undocumented adjustments you might need to implement to get it working. They have weird and officially undocumented design decisions that can end up wasting a lot of your time if you don’t have the benefit of having read sometimes years-old public Github issues.

It’s not just self-hosting either. Their documentation covers the basics of key modules, and their video training material is great for functional insight. But it’s clear they don’t have anyone who is able or willing to effectively foster a coherent product-wide strategy around documentation, training, and similar enablement must-haves. Ironically, I think the fact that they run so much of their infrastructure on Odoo itself is part of the problem in terms of implementing a better strategy. If you buy an EMR, you won’t use it for HR just because it’s geared toward managing data relating to humans.

Re: Show HN: Openkoda – Open–source, private, Salesforce alternative

#116

Post by anonzzzies »

jackthetab wrote: post #107
anonzzzies wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people building for decades on things like Ofbiz[0] because it's flexible and it's truly open source. There are open and closed projects built on top of it, because it's a flexible business system which allow you to quickly model and built anything. I know a few companies myself that replaced Salesforce with a custom Ofbiz implementations and local companies that do the implementations. [0] https://github.c…

That looks very interesting. I'm on the lookout for software for a bootstrapped biz. A problem I can see my mugg^H^H^H^Hcolleagues flinching at that UI and thinking "this can't be very good" just based on the UI; like it or not, looks matter. The themes I saw are basically color schemes. Has anyone done a more "modern" UI/UX?

I think there are some like https://github.com/growerp/growerp and I saw one on Vaadin and some others.

But yeah it is what most ERP tends to look like and then people make snazzy pages for specific sub flows for specific groups of users.

Re: Show HN: Openkoda – Open–source, private, Salesforce alternative

#117

Post by actionfromafar »

xuancanh wrote: post #114
actionfromafar wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I clearly wasn’t surveyed. I don’t even like Java but I would need a an extender to my ten foot pole before touching Go. (Unless we are talking microcontroller embedded software, and I only could choose between Java and Go.)

I initially disliked Go as well, but it's a language that can only be truly appreciated when you start using it. Many of its advantages come from from its simplicity, explicitness, fast compilation speed, single executable binary, and some opinionated choices made by its authors. Unless you're working with a legacy system, Go (or Rust) is the preferred choice nowadays for distributed systems and system softwares (Kub…

Oh that survey. Solidity leads over Javascript.

Re: Show HN: Openkoda – Open–source, private, Salesforce alternative

#118

Post by api »

rajamaka wrote: post #100
api wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be a better approach?

Developers livings as monks and coding away in a dark delapidated castle surviving on their 4 donated cups of coffee a month while addressing 43,000 GitHub issues a month created by enterprise users who are working on commodifying the FOSS product into their cloud solution.

Yep, which is why all software is being locked behind cloud paywalls.

It's kind of a tragedy of the commons.

Re: Show HN: Openkoda – Open–source, private, Salesforce alternative

#119

Post by tomrod »

api wrote: post #70
tomrod wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odoo's quest for monetization from open source has been a bit off-putting. I stopped using it a few quarters back due to that. Community and Enterprise are becoming too disjointed.

What would be a better approach?

Base community and enterprise being at parity; clear distinction of enterprise features that don't break community.

In other words, community edition should work transparently to enterprise edition, so migration is simpler.

Re: Show HN: Openkoda – Open–source, private, Salesforce alternative

#120

Post by zo1 »

actionfromafar wrote: post #105
zo1 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A python codebase never gets to the size of a Java one for the equivalent functionality. There's a reason the other ongoing mocking of Java is about its abundance of IAbstractGeneratorFactoryFactory classes.

This is true but Python codebases never reaches the feature parity of large Java code bases. I like Python up to about 10 kLOC or so, after that I tend to forget what is going on where, but in Java the IDE just knows what is going on where.

I hear you, and if you're using anything other than PyCharm (or Eclipse with PyDev back in the day) then that's what you'll find. But try it with PyCharm, it works flawlessly with near perfect refractor on million line of code python code bases.
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