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Linus torvalds on security

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Re: Linus torvalds on security

#111

Post by waxjar »

nessus42 wrote: post #65
waxjar wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that a weak excuse. If you were to dine in an expensive restaurant, where one of their guests talked really loudly on his cell phone all night, disturbing the other guests, you wouldn't expect the waiter to tell you to "just ignore it" or "just don't be disturbed". At least I wouldn't.

If you're in a fancy restaurant, what are you doing reading Linus's Google+ posts, rather than enjoying your meal?

I think you misunderstood my analogy. My point is, that obnoxious loud talking at a restaurant is as difficult to avoid as an interesting sounding link on a major tech news aggregator.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#112

Post by waxjar »

ojilles wrote: post #71
waxjar wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that a weak excuse. If you were to dine in an expensive restaurant, where one of their guests talked really loudly on his cell phone all night, disturbing the other guests, you wouldn't expect the waiter to tell you to "just ignore it" or "just don't be disturbed". At least I wouldn't.

There is a difference between public and private spaces.

I fail to see which one is public and which one is private in this case. They're both public in my opinion, but I could be wrong.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#113

Post by waxjar »

thetroll wrote: post #81
waxjar wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that a weak excuse. If you were to dine in an expensive restaurant, where one of their guests talked really loudly on his cell phone all night, disturbing the other guests, you wouldn't expect the waiter to tell you to "just ignore it" or "just don't be disturbed". At least I wouldn't.

i don't know if you noticed, but i wasn't making excuses. i'm just accepting how things are. don't impose your will to them and say things like it's "politically correct" to do so. because you can't, you can try. but that's not how the world works. i hate politics like this. it gets in the way of what's really happening.

Regardless of wether you were making excuses or not, my point still stands, I think.

Ignoring the problem might be a good way to deal with situations like this on a personal level. I'd say it's probably the wisest thing to do, because, as you say, confronting him and trying to change his behaviour would only work counter-effective.

But it doesn't solve the problem, which in this case is Linus's exaggerated and (slightly?) offensive use of language. Even for ignoring a problem, it is necessary to first acknowledge there is one, or there won't be anything to ignore.

You can argue wether it should even be considered a problem (I think it should be), but unfortunately, the same "excuse" could be made: you can't change what people perceive as a problem or not.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#114

Post by batista »

javert wrote: post #73
batista wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure. You wrote "I've never seen the kind of behavior Linus is famous for on the part of anyone besides Europeans.", which in the context of the threads, means things like him saying "kill yourself". Well, those guys, all non Europeans and most Americans, are some random and well known examples of similar --if not identical-- harsh talk as joke/commentary.

My point is that these OpenSUSE guys, software developers, created a free distribution (some were employed by SUSE no doubt and some not, doesn't matter), and Linus shows his thanks this way? I'm actually talking specifically about the context of kernel hacking. I always thought it was just the "kernel hacker culture" and it never occured to me to see it along geographical lines until someone pointed out that it's ap…

I'm actually talking specifically about the context of kernel hacking. I always thought it was just the "kernel hacker culture" and it never occured to me to see it along geographical lines until someone pointed out that it's apparently commonly accepted in Finland to talk to people this way in a professional context.

Oh, sorry, I took the thread was meant to address the whole geographical/cultural difference, not just with regards to the kernel list.

I mean, other guys commented in general that "That dark and exaggerated sense of humour is common at least amongst Brits, Irish, Aussies & Kiwis." etc. And it's not as Linus posted that on the kernel list either.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#115

Post by batista »

fckin wrote: post #80
batista wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to look up the definition of "joke" before you insult Americans in general and call them "9 year olds" based on an incorrect usage of that term. I did. Have you? Definition #2 from Mirriam-Webster: "something not to be taken seriously". Telling someone to commit suicide, even if not meant literally, because of a technical disagreement, should not be (in my opinion) considered acceptable in any culture. You k…

Cool. I hope your Paki dyke mom dies of AIDS! LOL, am I right?

Well, ok. Am I offended? Not. I'm not even a Paki, but whatever.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#116

Post by batista »

VMG wrote: post #91
javert wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I've never heard that kind of thing (as in "kill yourself" not "you're a moron" - that one is par for the course among kernel hackers) said outside of Linus Torvalds, Ulrich Drepper maybe, and comedians and the like that are in an explicitly comedic situation. I realize he doesn't mean it literally. Anyway, this is just to clarify, not to argue further.

In case you are wondering: if somebody tells you to "go fuck yourself" he doesn't literally want you to do that.

Not that it would be bad, if you did, though.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#117

Post by greedo »

waxjar wrote: post #63
thetroll wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same here. Linus is a man with strong opinions, so i guess the kind of language he uses helps reflects that. and i find it funny that people get upset so much over it. some "political correctness" crap. look, you don't control what other people say or does, but you can control how that affects you. if you're going to seriously get upset about someone telling you to "kill yourself", you should get yourself a psychiatr…

I find that a weak excuse. If you were to dine in an expensive restaurant, where one of their guests talked really loudly on his cell phone all night, disturbing the other guests, you wouldn't expect the waiter to tell you to "just ignore it" or "just don't be disturbed". At least I wouldn't.

You can ignore Linus's post. Just as you would ignore a troll in a forum.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#118

Post by tygorius »

javert wrote: post #74
tygorius wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry. No aspersions on your mental health were intended. I was using "you" in the general, hypothetical sense. You and I are not the only ones reading this thread. One of the things I learned from depression was that one (not "you") could intellectually realize that a stimulus was trivial and yet still have a near-overpowering emotional response. People in such a situation would be well advised to deal with the unde…

I came back to apologize for telling you to "shut up." I don't think it was worded too too rudely and necessarily requires an apology, but that's not my style, either. I just lost a ton of karma on this (not that that matters, but it stings a bit!) and felt like a lot of people were attacking me on disingenuous grounds. Anyway, I do appreciate the apology, so thank you! Your point about depression is actually quite i…

I used to have the same view of where emotions come from. But after getting brain snapshots and diagnoses from medical doctors and a psychologist, I had to confront my personal history and conclude that habits of thought were only part of the solution. Hence the research findings that talk therapies and meds are more effective than either alone. (Not to mention that an effective therapy is one that produces a 30% solid success rate balanced with a %30 negligable response. Not something you want to hear if you're looking for magic pills to make your problems disappear.)

Anyway, as famed neuroscientist Ted Nelson once put it, "Everything is intertwingled." Just a couple of months ago I read an item about a rodent memory experiment in Helsinki that supported the theory that the reason antianxiety drugs work is that they stimulate neuroplasticity. The results would seem to explain why those drugs could show up in our bloodstreams within hours and yet take weeks for real results to show up -- and it also supports two-pronged approaches to improvement.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#119

Post by thetroll »

waxjar wrote: post #113
thetroll wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't know if you noticed, but i wasn't making excuses. i'm just accepting how things are. don't impose your will to them and say things like it's "politically correct" to do so. because you can't, you can try. but that's not how the world works. i hate politics like this. it gets in the way of what's really happening.

Regardless of wether you were making excuses or not, my point still stands, I think. Ignoring the problem might be a good way to deal with situations like this on a personal level. I'd say it's probably the wisest thing to do, because, as you say, confronting him and trying to change his behaviour would only work counter-effective. But it doesn't solve the problem, which in this case is Linus's exaggerated and (sligh…

right, i guess we'll agree to disagree then. i recognize that i can't control how people react to what other people might act or say, and i don't consider that a problem.

so are we in agreement that: whether or not you consider that a problem or not(and you snapped and needed a psychiatrist), that's _your_ problem?

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#120

Post by thetroll »

greedo wrote: post #117
waxjar wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that a weak excuse. If you were to dine in an expensive restaurant, where one of their guests talked really loudly on his cell phone all night, disturbing the other guests, you wouldn't expect the waiter to tell you to "just ignore it" or "just don't be disturbed". At least I wouldn't.

You can ignore Linus's post. Just as you would ignore a troll in a forum.

excuse me... ? :)
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