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Linus torvalds on security

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Re: Linus torvalds on security

#81

Post by thetroll »

waxjar wrote: post #63
thetroll wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same here. Linus is a man with strong opinions, so i guess the kind of language he uses helps reflects that. and i find it funny that people get upset so much over it. some "political correctness" crap. look, you don't control what other people say or does, but you can control how that affects you. if you're going to seriously get upset about someone telling you to "kill yourself", you should get yourself a psychiatr…

I find that a weak excuse. If you were to dine in an expensive restaurant, where one of their guests talked really loudly on his cell phone all night, disturbing the other guests, you wouldn't expect the waiter to tell you to "just ignore it" or "just don't be disturbed". At least I wouldn't.

i don't know if you noticed, but i wasn't making excuses. i'm just accepting how things are. don't impose your will to them and say things like it's "politically correct" to do so. because you can't, you can try. but that's not how the world works.

i hate politics like this. it gets in the way of what's really happening.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#82

Post by zokier »

huhtenberg wrote: post #64
mhurron wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The official installation path for Windows being Program Files is no different than the expected installation for the majority of .deb or .rpm files being /usr. In both cases, you can't install software with its default assumption as a unprivileged user. The defaults on both Windows and basically every Linux distribution assume software installs are done by a privileged account. You can install to c:\Users\%USERNAME%…

Windows is far more riddled with malware and spyware than Linux distros, their users are far more ignorant than the Linux crowd, so having %ProgramFiles% default to a system directory is substantially worse and damaging than letting apt-get (that can't even be run without root privileges) default to /usr. Take a look at a list of predefined paths available on Windows [1]. It doesn't have anything even approximating ~…

You keep mentioning ~/bin, but I don't think any major distro ships with such thing. So I don't really see how the situation is any better on Linux than it is on Windows. And then Windows has the Folder Virtualization trick.

> And if you try and install into C:\Users\...\Program Files, you will quickly be mis-detected as malware or spyware

So it's Windows's fault if you use crappy anti-virus applications? If you'd use similar applications on Linux wouldn't it equally flag ~/bin as malware too?

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#83

Post by zokier »

huhtenberg wrote: post #22
cpswan wrote: post #4

It's funny that some of the areas that he touches on are also things where Windows requires local admin. Clearly a messed up privileged action model seems to be common across OSes.

Don't get started on Windows. Just don't. You know that UAC prompt you get when running setup.exe for an IM client? Ever wondered why there's an UAC prompt in the first place? Because Windows assumes that setup.exe needs admin privileges (unless .exe explicitly states that it doesn't). This piece of engineering doesn't even have a concept of ~/bin. In fact, there is/was an official W7 guideline that said that all pro…

> Now, what sort of a imbecile decided that it's a good idea to let an underprivileged account install into a system directory - UAC or not - is beyond me.

Unprivileged accounts do not have write access to %ProgramFiles% by default in Windows.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#84

Post by rimantas »

javert wrote: post #2

... please just kill yourself now I don't think someone who actually knows what it's like to experience suicidal thoughts would ever say something like that to people in a technical/professional context. There is something to be said for the "tough love" Linux culture, but IMO, language as extreme as what I just quoted is just not acceptable. For me, this is crossing the line from "Linus has an interesting and entert…

Going down this path you will find yourself in a place where you cannot say or do anything without offending someone.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#85

Post by jacquesm »

batista wrote: post #26
javert wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is quite different from "political correctness" as the term is typically used, which is regarding issues of gender, ethnicity, political opinion, etc. It's the same in US English I don't agree. I've never thought of it before, but to be honest, in my 25 years of life, I've never seen the kind of behavior Linus is famous for on the part of anyone besides Europeans. (Most of whom, I should add, do not appe…

I don't agree. I've never thought of it before, but to be honest, in my 25 years of life, I've never seen the kind of behavior Linus is famous for on the part of anyone besides Europeans. Really? Does Lenny Bruce qualify? How about Dennis Leary? (Well, he is of Irish descent, I'll give you that). Hani Suleiman, of the Bile Blog fame? http://javablogs.com/views/ViewBlog.action?id=11454 Definitely not a European. How a…

You forgot Bill Hicks. Given the original quote that Javert took offense to I think it's a pretty good example. And I'm not 100% sure he was joking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#86

Post by tomp »

batista wrote: post #61
javert wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to look up the definition of "joke" before you insult Americans in general and call them "9 year olds" based on an incorrect usage of that term. Telling someone to commit suicide, even if not meant literally, because of a technical disagreement, should not be (in my opinion) considered acceptable in any culture. Unless it's just an established colloquialism of everyday speech, as maybe it is for Finns. I don…

You need to look up the definition of "joke" before you insult Americans in general and call them "9 year olds" based on an incorrect usage of that term. I did. Have you? Definition #2 from Mirriam-Webster: "something not to be taken seriously". Telling someone to commit suicide, even if not meant literally, because of a technical disagreement, should not be (in my opinion) considered acceptable in any culture. You k…

> lots of cultures the world over think political correctness itself as silly and/or prudish.

Kudos to that. I find it hilarious, and very sad at the same time, that Americans can't say policeman/policewoman any more, and that they have at least 4, maybe more, words for for different values of "fat" (overweight, fat, obese, morbidly obese, ...). In Slovenia, one is just fat, maybe very fat.

Making a big deal out of irrelevant things... Now, someone that is not "tall" is "vertically challenged"? I mean, what's wrong with being short?

The point that "politically correct" people are missing is that you cannot really make someone "feel bad", because they already feel bad. You can only make them "feel worse" with your comments.

And the fact that you can get arrested/denied entry to the US because of Twitter messages, that's just fascist (England is in that club as well).

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#87

Post by roel_v »

flomo wrote: post #70
mongol wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I agree. And it is like every other quote from Linus contains similar exaggregations. I think it is his biggest weakness.

This type of 'edgy' language was very popular back on Usenet in the 1990s, and the Linux kernel mailing list never really got away from it. Very much a Generation X thing - Kill yourself, they're smoking crack, those retards, kick em in the nuts, etc etc, yawn.

Ouch, now you're making me feel old, I still do those things, and yes have done for 15 years.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#88

Post by davidw »

tantalor wrote: post #18

Really ought to link to the proper URL for the post: https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/1vyfmNCY...

The photo of Timberline was nice though:-) Linus has got to be one of Oregon's more illustrious citizens.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#89

Post by Sapient »

javert wrote: post #77
icebraining wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should read Your Mother's Tongue: Book of European Invective. You'd be surprised (and in your case, probably shocked) at what people call each other without any intention of actually insulting them. For example, here in Portugal and in informal situations, it's reasonably common for a person to use an expression that essentially calls their mother a whore because they made something that somewhat annoyed you. Of…

Thanks. I may actually read that, because it's clear to me that a lot of things really aggravate me that don't aggravate a lot of other people in the FOSS world, and if I want to get along, I'd better get over it. (Though that doesn't mean I will condone it or do it myself.)

Now THAT is a sensible attitude! Bravo.

Whenever there are large groups of people communicating, someone will find something to be offended at - and as long as it isn't personal or bigoted we need to just ignore it and move on. In this case, Linus' colorful use of language will almost certainly add some amount of weight to his statement.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#90

Post by LinaLauneBaer »

javert wrote: post #11
lurker17 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same in US English. The issue is just that there are 1-10% of people who are sensitive to the issue, and computing has grown from a small club of close friends/enemies/frenemies to a more mainstream activity, there is a growing call for being more welcoming and "politicallyy correct" tone in conversation. For example, on the official Mozilla Bugzilla, diverting from technical debate to non-technical vitrioli…

I think this is quite different from "political correctness" as the term is typically used, which is regarding issues of gender, ethnicity, political opinion, etc. It's the same in US English I don't agree. I've never thought of it before, but to be honest, in my 25 years of life, I've never seen the kind of behavior Linus is famous for on the part of anyone besides Europeans. (Most of whom, I should add, do not appe…

In the professional gaming scene when you beat someone in a match you also say "I raped him hard" and nobody thinks of it as a real rape.
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