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Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

science.org

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Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#111

Post by danw1979 »

ars wrote: post #68
arcticbull wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that's fair your link suggests it's found its way into schedule 2 of the chemical weapons convention. > Perfluoroisobutene is quite toxic with an LCt = 880 mg⋅min⋅m−3 (mice).[1] It is a Schedule 2 substance of the Chemical Weapons Convention. I don't know about you but I try and keep my ricin away from my breakfast foods. It is however reassuring that it'll be degraded in the environment.

> I don't know about you but I try and keep my ricin away from my breakfast foods. To cause Teflon to degrade you have to heat the pan to over 500F / 260C. No one cooks at those temperatures, even ovens don't go so high. You basically have to forget the pan on a high flame for a long time. And the toxic chemicals you get from overheating oil are far worse, somehow everyone forgets about those.

My gas hob burns at >450C and we’ve had several instances of a forgotten teflon pan that made a terrible smell.

I’d say it’s pretty easy to get teflon to degrade at home.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#112

Post by kragen »

pessimizer wrote: post #110
kragen wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Condolences. Had you had them long?

No, it's even more awful. I was visiting my mother and little sister (tween at the time) on vacation from work (we lived in different states), and I was going to make them breakfast. Spaced out on the pan while trying to sort out the ingredients. Everybody tried to make me feel better (because no one else had ever heard that Teflon kills birds either), but little sister was distraught.

I'm so sorry. I'm a fan of teflon but I'm spacey enough that I wouldn't cook on it if I had birds.

How long ago was this? I'm guessing that the relevant knowledge maybe still isn't widespread.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#113

Post by kragen »

asdff wrote: post #103
kragen wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have recommendations for seasoning them without a thermostat or a suitable thermometer? I successfully burned my new cast-iron skillet clean, but even after four thin coats of poppyseed and flaxseed oil, each heated up for an hour or so to a temperature that chars garlic skin after a few minutes, eggs still stick if I try to cook them on it without oil. (I'm a fan of teflon but I like cast iron even more.)

Just use a little butter, olive oil, or lard (bacon is good) whenever you cook with them.

Interesting, I'd heard that those saturated fats basically can't be oxidatively cross-linked to form a seasoning?

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#114

Post by pessimizer »

adriand wrote: post #93
ars wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know about you but I try and keep my ricin away from my breakfast foods. To cause Teflon to degrade you have to heat the pan to over 500F / 260C. No one cooks at those temperatures, even ovens don't go so high. You basically have to forget the pan on a high flame for a long time. And the toxic chemicals you get from overheating oil are far worse, somehow everyone forgets about those.

Every oven I’ve ever had goes to 500 degrees. I have no idea why you are making this claim. Anecdotally I know I can get pans hotter than this on my gas stovetop, just judging on searing and smoke production, and a quick google for how hot pans can get on a stovetop gives results > 600 degrees.

> Every oven I’ve ever had goes to 500 degrees.

And plenty of recipes are cooked at 450 degrees. I don't even believe there's a full-sized (i.e. not a toaster) oven that doesn't go to 500 degrees, but I'm willing to be corrected.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#115

Post by pessimizer »

kragen wrote: post #112
pessimizer wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's even more awful. I was visiting my mother and little sister (tween at the time) on vacation from work (we lived in different states), and I was going to make them breakfast. Spaced out on the pan while trying to sort out the ingredients. Everybody tried to make me feel better (because no one else had ever heard that Teflon kills birds either), but little sister was distraught.

I'm so sorry. I'm a fan of teflon but I'm spacey enough that I wouldn't cook on it if I had birds. How long ago was this? I'm guessing that the relevant knowledge maybe still isn't widespread.

Probably 10-15 years ago at this point, but I still feel shitty about it.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#116

Post by danw1979 »

ars wrote: post #65
pessimizer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what's released from Teflon pans at high heat, but Teflon kills birds. I know this because I killed two birds by forgetting about a pan I was warming up. Wasn't enough to make the pan look any different; was enough to instantly kill the birds. https://www.teflon.com/en/consumers/teflon-coatings-cookware...

Hot oil also kills birds, and at a lower temperature than Teflon. So if you had been using oil with your pan the birds would have still died, and earlier than they did with the Teflon.

Just a cursory google for Teflon killing birds yields numerous results including this one … from teflon.com - https://www.teflon.com/en/consumers/teflon-coatings-cookware...

When the product itself is actually publicly fessing up to being acutely toxic in some way, it’s a pretty safe bet it is.

There’s no reason to doubt the account here of the birds dying and this being the likely cause.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#118

Post by nfhshy68 »

bergenty wrote: post #83
biotinker wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, but in and of itself, it's less toxic to humans than ethanol is. It degrades in the environment quite readily, as well. If we were looking for a chemical to deploy at scale to clean up PFAS in existing environments, we could do much worse.

It’s a carrier. It introduces whatever is in it to your bloodstream.

Does it release it?

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#119

Post by loldk »

chasil wrote: post #22
sbierwagen wrote: post #4

The paper: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm8868 The "soap and solvent" is sodium hydroxide (lye) and DMSO at 120 degC. Those are... fairly... well behaved chemicals, but lye is stout stuff and DMSO attacks nitrile gloves. You could imagine a remediation process that uses this process but the combo ain't exactly Dawn dish soap. I'd almost prefer pyroprocessing over it.

DMSO is not well-behaved. It easily penetrates human skin, and carries solutes with it. Don't touch! "DMSO can cause contaminants, toxins, and medicines to be absorbed through the skin, which may cause unexpected effects. "Because DMSO easily penetrates the skin, substances dissolved in DMSO may be quickly absorbed. Glove selection is important when working with DMSO. Butyl rubber, fluoroelastomer, neoprene, or thick…

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