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The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

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Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#111

Post by mdpye »

tomjen3 wrote: post #71
semanticjudo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By just about any measure alcohol is a "harder" drug than marijuana but certainly more broadly acceptable.

Having never done weed, if I smoke one will I preform worse at cognitive tasks than I would if I had a beer? I know, comparing uppers and downers, not the same effects, etc.

It's difficult to say what an equivalent dose might be and this is just my experience, but...

Definitely cognitive tasks would be considered more impaired by weed than beer, at "roughly equivalent to a pint" level. Likely neither would be a big deal.

Weed is neither upper, nor downer really, it an hallucinogen.

That means less ordered thinking. Quite possibly an increase in creativity and lateral concept matching (say, making or appreciating witty comments) but also an impairment to short term memory and direct logical reasoning.

For motor skills and reaction times, beer definitely hits harder.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#112

Post by mdpye »

mdpye wrote: post #111
tomjen3 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having never done weed, if I smoke one will I preform worse at cognitive tasks than I would if I had a beer? I know, comparing uppers and downers, not the same effects, etc.

It's difficult to say what an equivalent dose might be and this is just my experience, but... Definitely cognitive tasks would be considered more impaired by weed than beer, at "roughly equivalent to a pint" level. Likely neither would be a big deal. Weed is neither upper, nor downer really, it an hallucinogen. That means less ordered thinking. Quite possibly an increase in creativity and lateral concept matching (sa…

Oh, and on dosage, I'm from the UK. In my experience in the US a single joint is rolled to a potency I'd consider equivalent to "a mug full of whisky", not a pint of beer!

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#113

Post by d23 »

crazy_horse wrote: post #16

I know Vince Gilligan did his research prior to Breaking Bad but st strikes me how on the nose it was. BB came out in 2008 and must have been in production a few years earlier but the increase in actual purity pretty much matches the show coming out. I also recall the show depicting meth users having all those problems - Jesse is paranoid the missionaries are bikers, there's that guy digging a hole in his front yard,…

I happen to be re-watching this right now, and it blew my mind to see those graphs and not see the show lagging a few years behind the reality. How is this possible? It borderline seems like the background research for the show must have actually talked to the mass manufacturers of the stuff...

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#114

Post by tyingq »

wirrbel wrote: post #106
tyingq wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the gin->mean, whisky->emotional, etc, is all bunk. But I'm still convinced there's a link between alcohol and violence. If nothing else, the lowered cognitive function and reduced inhibition would mean more opportunity to be angry, and less self control. Like, a drunk person might misinterpret someone accidentally bumping into them as aggression. And would be less likely to suppress the urge to respond…

Reduced inhibition does not support the thesis of increased agression, unless you define aggression to refer to "aggression shown". But I'd overall turn the 'cultural' aspect a little further even. I think I have observed a couple of times people to consume alcohol in order to be able to transgress cultural norms because the cultural norms themselves are 'parametrised' for the sober-drunk states. I.e. get into a figh…

>Reduced inhibition does not support the thesis of increased agression, unless you define aggression to refer to "aggression shown".

I mean overall increased opportunity for violence. Less inhibition might mean I'm more likely to say "fuck off" to someone rather than just think it. Which could lead somewhere.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#115

Post by wayoutthere »

dcolkitt wrote: post #88
dynm wrote: post #2

Around a week ago, I came across this link here on HN that suggested that there's a new form of meth: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28938888 The theory is that new meth is based on a synthesis using a chemical called P2P rather than the old synthesis that used ephedrine. There are claims that this new form of meth is chemically different in some what that started creating schizophrenia around 2017. However, wh…

Much of the effects of any intoxicant are culturally constructed. Alcohol is widely known for causing aggression, but this effect doesn’t seem to exist in cultures without that association. Nor does it exist in double-blind studies, yet the placebo group becomes more aggressive. You can start with two chemically identical intoxicants, and either by marketing or random path dependencies one gains a reputation in the s…

> Look at the moral panic over Four Loko. The same cocktail of ethanol and caffeine has been consumed as amaro and coffee by rich women since time immemorial. Yet it never caused moral panic until the “wrong type of people” started consuming it.

You’re not entirely wrong, but a splash of liqueur into a small cup of coffee is pretty different from dissolving caffeine pills in tall boys of malt liquor.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#116

Post by [deleted] »

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #58
e40 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Talk to your kids and tell them not to use any pills, not even once. Can you elaborate? I have no idea what this is about. I thought meth was smoked.

Meth doesn't have to be smoked, you can just eat the crystals orally, but meth abusers uusally don't do that because it's not nearly as fun. The pills they're referring to, 30 M ( https://www.drugs.com/imprints/30-m-8232.html ), are oxycodone pills (a powerful opioid), but he's likely actually specifically referring to pressed fent (or fent analogue) pills that are made to look like real oxycodone pills. Or perhaps a…

[deleted]

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#117

Post by twofornone »

dcolkitt wrote: post #88
dynm wrote: post #2

Around a week ago, I came across this link here on HN that suggested that there's a new form of meth: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28938888 The theory is that new meth is based on a synthesis using a chemical called P2P rather than the old synthesis that used ephedrine. There are claims that this new form of meth is chemically different in some what that started creating schizophrenia around 2017. However, wh…

Much of the effects of any intoxicant are culturally constructed. Alcohol is widely known for causing aggression, but this effect doesn’t seem to exist in cultures without that association. Nor does it exist in double-blind studies, yet the placebo group becomes more aggressive. You can start with two chemically identical intoxicants, and either by marketing or random path dependencies one gains a reputation in the s…

You are probably right in your assertion regarding alcohol, however I suspect it may be possible that there are other compounds unique to various flavors of liquor which may influence the overall effects in various ways. These compounds may not be perceptably psychoactive on their own.

The same goes for strains of marijuana, beyond THC and CBD other psychoactive compounds are inconsistently present with uncertain psychoactive effects (if any). Further there may be complex nonlinear interactions (e.g. two compounds produce no effect but adding a third can change the experience, particularly if you consider reaction products from combustion).

In any case the uncertainty is good for marketing.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#118

Post by throwawayyy181 »

sneak wrote: post #89
ceejayoz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same in the US; you can buy it without a prescription, but you have to have your ID logged.

A few pharmacies weren't set up to take either a foreign ID or a US passport when the program started. I ended up just buying it on Postmates, delivered, no ID check.

Is shake and bake easy? Seems pretty trivial

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#119

Post by throwaway2331 »

coolspot wrote: post #90
throwaway2331 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding on: the problem with vyvanse is that there's no way to mess around with the dosage to get it "just right." It's like a more strict version of extended release (EX) and timed release formulations (there's a difference!). Vyvanse is metabolized to d-amphetamine in your blood cells (the specific mechanism escapes me right now), unlike the regular non-prodrug versions which get "metabolized" first in your stomach…

Thank you for in-depth explanation. Is there a book or some website where all this knowledge of ADHD medication usage nuances is collected in one place? Like a missing ADHD manual?

Ironically, erowid and other "drug" related forums contain the best "practical" knowledge and nuances of actually having to take the medication. They're not scientific or robust, but they are empirical. That's why most pharmacists and prescription-writing physicians will look at you funny (or get combative) if you tell them generic brand X isn't as effective/good as generic brand Z for you.

On paper, each generic must pass some bio-equivalency test with the FDA. Most of the time all that means is "we at generic brand X ran our own experiments and concluded that we show similar blood concentrations of drug A, to Brand-Name Z." And then every professional involved in that supply chain writes it off as "basically the same," excluding all the little implementation/manufacturing details that go into each specific producer, much less factory (quality control is frankly disturbing in many of these plants).

You won't find a lot of practical information written within scientific literature, aside from basic chemistry/biology (the low-level details). Most of the time the researchers running these experiments have done less research and have less hands on experience than the people who have to use this medication on a daily basis. Many times reading the scientific literature is just a rabbit hole that leads to nowhere, except feeling like "you're on to something."

Apologies for the rant.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#120

Post by throwawayyy181 »

eoinbmorg wrote: post #94
debacle wrote: post #78

I've looked into the logistics of "cooking" meth and it is a complex process that, were I not an expert, wouldn't create something I would be comfortable putting into my body. How is meth "industrially" produced? Is it Walter White-esque clandestine factories? Is it clever people in their garages? Is it done over the border?

The thing with cooking meth is that you don't have to be comfortable putting it in your body. You just have to be comfortable selling it to someone else who will put it in their body! Unfortunately, for many meth producers/dealers that bar is not very high.

Maybe at the top of the food chain, but a lot of lower level people are addicts working to support a habit by pinching from wholesale
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