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The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

theguardian.com

111–120 of 372 posts

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#111

The Guardian has no problem with the unaccountable power of platforms and banks. The Guardian merely has a problem with this particular application of it.

Absolutely true. Whoever is downvoting leave a comment to explain. Are we okay with banks discriminating against free speech but not against porn?

What is to explain?

The article is an Opinion and not representative of The Guardian. It is written by Jillian C York, the author of Silicon Values: The Future of Free Speech Under Surveillance Capitalism.

Trying to conflate this opinion piece with The Guardian itself is dumb and shows a failure to understand what an Opinion is.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#112

As far as I was aware, the main reason banks don't want to deal with porn is the huge rate of chargebacks that occur. Post nut clarity is apparently a financial problem.

It's not only chargebacks, it's also stolen credit cards being used on porn sites to "launder" the money.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#114

It's interesting to see the comments from people who supported Youtube/Twitter/FB/Patreon/Visa political censorship, but are suddenly against the porn censorship by the payment same systems. "Rules for thee, but not for me."

A girl pleasuring herself isn’t the same thing as encouraging people to storm the White House and overthrow democracy, I’m confused why you would interpolate the two. It is just more fuel for the argument that America has always been so uncomfortable and Puritan with sex and way too comfortable with violence.

Calling on people to storm the capitol and over throw democracy isn't the same as protesting politicians who refuse to take allegations of election tampering seriously, and yet people with censorship powers keep insisting that the former is what January 6th was about.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A girl pleasuring herself isn’t the same thing as encouraging people to storm the White House and overthrow democracy, I’m confused why you would interpolate the two. It is just more fuel for the argument that America has always been so uncomfortable and Puritan with sex and way too comfortable with violence.

> A girl pleasuring herself isn’t the same thing as encouraging people to storm the White House and overthrow democracy That comparison doesn't work because calling to storm the Whitehouse is calling on people to perform an illegal act which is illegal by itself. I think everyone is in agreement that platforms should remove content that is illegal.

The content that encouraged people to storm Congress didn’t contain overtly illegal overtures. And yet that’s what happened, relatively predictably from the scenario.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#116
post #68
post #10

So do I have to be THAT guy? Fine. Crypto solves this issue...

Don't checks and other payment mechanisms also solve this problem? Obviously not as conveniently as Mastercard or Visa, but it is disingenuous to assert that credit cards have a monopoly on payments .

Checks are slow and can be faked or scammed.

Sending cash also wouldn’t work.

MasterCard and Visa had a strong monopoly on instant transactions at a distance. They fought PayPal quite a bit in the beginning as it encroached on their monopoly.

Thankfully crypto has solved this monopoly

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#117
There's this common meme of blaming anti-sex-work sentiment on some bloc of US Evangelicals who secretly rule the Western economy and politics. Because surely, it couldn't be the market speaking out against adult material?

Here's an alternative hypothesis: between those anti-sex fundamentalist religious groups (Christian or otherwise) and people who absolutely love everything sex-related, there's the vast majority of people who find the whole topic uncomfortable to a large degree. Whether they themselves like porn or not (or like, but feel guilty about it[0]), whether they make use of various meatspace sex services or not, they don't like being reminded of it. They don't like sex being mixed with other areas of life. They might especially not want their kids to be exposed to porn, or to become sex workers.

The market caters to majority case. Advertisers, especially, cater to majority. In such hypothetical world (which I posit might just be the real one), the market itself will exert pressure against overt pornography and sex work, and anything that associates itself with it.

So, perhaps, there's no conspiracy in play - maybe it's just the majority getting the things to how they want them to be.

(It's supposed to be good, right? When some people here complain that technology is increasingly user-hostile and exploitative, there's no shortage of arguments saying it's not conspiracy, it's just the market catering for majority use case. So which way is it?)

--

EDIT: Three more thoughts.

1) Of course, the degree of discomfort with sex topics is a spectrum. But on this spectrum, sex work and hardcore pornography are one of the extremes, not the middle point. Thus, the majority being uncomfortable shouldn't be a surprising concept.

2) I suspect the same thing happens with drugs. There's people who are strongly anti-drug, often on religious basis. Then there's people who are for everyone (responsibly) ingesting whatever they want. But in between, there is - in my experience - the majority who's afraid. Afraid of health effects, afraid of associations with organized crime, afraid of being shunned by others. And so, even legally selling mind-altering substances (other than alcohol and cigarettes, which have been normalized over centuries) faces the same challenges as sex businesses.

3) One can say it's religion all way down. Perhaps. Atheism as a cultural phenomenon is a very new thing in the history of humanity. The way people think about sexuality carries thousands of years of baggage. It's not going to change overnight, or over investment round, or over election cycle. So I don't think you can fix the problems faced by sex workers by telling Visa or Mastercard to chill out.

--

[0] - There's no shortage of pundits - secular, religious, and religious pretending to be scientific - that make careers out of convincing people that porn is bad for you.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#118

It's interesting to see the comments from people who supported Youtube/Twitter/FB/Patreon/Visa political censorship, but are suddenly against the porn censorship by the payment same systems. "Rules for thee, but not for me."

A girl pleasuring herself isn’t the same thing as encouraging people to storm the White House and overthrow democracy, I’m confused why you would interpolate the two. It is just more fuel for the argument that America has always been so uncomfortable and Puritan with sex and way too comfortable with violence.

What anyone with this argument doesn't understand is how censorship can't be comfortably shoehorned in these "morally understandable, accepted by everyone" categories. This false belief was a relic of the 80s-2000s. Shoehorning is very subjective of the current societal compass, and now that this breaks up to thousand pieces in online platforms, it fails us all.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A girl pleasuring herself isn’t the same thing as encouraging people to storm the White House and overthrow democracy, I’m confused why you would interpolate the two. It is just more fuel for the argument that America has always been so uncomfortable and Puritan with sex and way too comfortable with violence.

Calling on people to storm the capitol and over throw democracy isn't the same as protesting politicians who refuse to take allegations of election tampering seriously, and yet people with censorship powers keep insisting that the former is what January 6th was about.

There is no credible evidence. Its an insane conspiracy theory.

There were many, many lawsuits all of which were heard in court and ruled on.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#120

It's interesting to see the comments from people who supported Youtube/Twitter/FB/Patreon/Visa political censorship, but are suddenly against the porn censorship by the payment same systems. "Rules for thee, but not for me."

A girl pleasuring herself isn’t the same thing as encouraging people to storm the White House and overthrow democracy, I’m confused why you would interpolate the two. It is just more fuel for the argument that America has always been so uncomfortable and Puritan with sex and way too comfortable with violence.

While I am concerned about the coercive power of these platforms against speech they find unpopular, whether porn, or something else....

> A girl pleasuring herself isn’t the same thing as encouraging people to storm the White House and overthrow democracy

Enough with the hyperbole, the FBI has already stated they found little evidence of a grand conspiracy to overthrow the govt [1], despite the fact we know that the Oathkeepers' leader is actually an FBI operative or informant [2]

[1] https://www.salon.com/2021/08/20/fbi-finds-little-evidence-j...

[2] https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/stewart-rhodes-oath-keeper...

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