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Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

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Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#111

Post by throwdecro »

mikem170 wrote: post #84
seriousquestion wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that work? How do they get the ID? And is it location accurate enough that it would not get confused with another phone a few feet away?

Wifi and/or bluetooth media addresses, which are unique. I've heard that wifi tracks you to the store, bluetooth to the aisle in the store. A lot of people have all this enabled on their phones, right? Then there's the apps installed on so many phones that are built using facebook sdk's and similar that include a lot of spyware. I have the impression that stores doing this are working with data aggregator to associat…

If they do this to a person from an EU country, won't that person have a potent issue to raise via GDPR?

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#112

Post by josephcsible »

quitethelogic wrote: post #102
rootusrootus wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, this is not a general Walmart policy, it is store-specific. Not too long ago I was looking for a product that only Walmart seems to keep in stock, but they don't keep much of it. And their online system is not very accurate. So in the space of two hours I visited four different Walmarts, ranging from one in a nicer area of town, to one in a poor area. Security was nonexistent at the first Walmart. T…

I know the bag check isn't the focus here, but I always just politely decline. After I've paid, I own whatever is in those bags and no, you can't look in them.

You can just decline in stores that anyone is allowed to just walk in and shop, but at places that you need a membership for, your membership contract usually requires that you let them look.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#113

Post by daveslash »

_wldu wrote: post #20

Walmart makes this rather obvious. I was walking down a medicine aisle the other day, and I looked up and saw my face on a screen with green lines outlining it.

I started to type "That's not facial recognition", then deleted it...

The green box that you're describing is recognizing that _A_ face is in view of the camera. This is often used for properly adjusting focus, exposure, etc... I suppose you could call it "facial recognition", because that's exactly what it's doing. But it's fairly benign and passive. This technology exists in my DSLR cameras that have no network connection and do not save any facial data anywhere in the image.

But then there is facial recognition that knows who you are, it's connected to a network, and it logs where you go - and these back-end systems correlate this data with other data that's been collected about you. Systems that know who you are are what is generally meant when discussing "facial recognition".

This article doesn't say.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#114

Post by ggggtez »

rootusrootus wrote: post #73
SkyPuncher wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I was in a Walmart, it felt like they were doing everything they could to communicate they didn't want me to shop at their store. * Gates at the main entrances * Cameras everywhere * "Security" walking through the store in clearly marked uniforms * Self checkouts with UX that clearly communicates a lack of trust.

In my experience, this is not a general Walmart policy, it is store-specific. Not too long ago I was looking for a product that only Walmart seems to keep in stock, but they don't keep much of it. And their online system is not very accurate. So in the space of two hours I visited four different Walmarts, ranging from one in a nicer area of town, to one in a poor area. Security was nonexistent at the first Walmart. T…

I know a lot of tech people don't go to Walmart, but this also matches my experience. More brown neighborhoods have more security.

But important note: you can just leave. You don't have to let them check your bag. They aren't cops.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#115

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

40% isn’t really “almost half,” unless you squint and turn your head sideways.

I’m a little suspicious of surveys that have only two choices that add up to 100%.

That said, I’m not happy with the way that facial recognition is being deployed, and a lot of HN readers are the ones that are crafting the tools.

When a blacksmith makes a sword, they know what it’s for. Things get fuzzier, after that.

I watched a (terrible) movie, a while ago, called Monsters of Man, and it featured this team of geeks that developed AI-powered killbots, and were forced to get “up close and personal” with their work.

Needless to say, things didn’t end well for them.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#116

Post by oramit »

I'm honestly perplexed by the discussion here. Why should I care that a grocery store is using this? They already have camera systems - what is it about feeding that data into a facial recognition algorithm that is so awful?

They want to identify who their customers are and already do a good job of it with loyalty cards. I often have to show my ID when I buy beer. I'm in a public place where I have no expectation of privacy. I run into my neighbors in the grocery store and say Hi.

What exactly should I be trying to hide here?

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#117

Post by namelessoracle »

rootusrootus wrote: post #77
SkyPuncher wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about inconvenience or efficiency. It's the hostile signaling Walmart is communicating to their customers. I go to the Target just down the street, and it's the exact opposite experience.

Home Depot does this now, and it's starting to alienate me. They are conveniently located, but in various places in the stores (presumably in the areas where commonly shoplifted products are kept), they have cameras with screens and as you walk by they ding at you so you'll notice they are recording. I don't like getting treated that way, so I've started shopping more often at Lowes, even though it takes a couple min…

Lowes uses facial recognition tech in their stores. The camera is there all the same. https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/14/22576236/retail-stores-fa...

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#118

Post by 6510 »

after_care wrote: post #63
mbg721 wrote: post #55

Kroger has felt especially intrusive for a couple of decades; it's almost as though they're going out of their way to be manipulative and creepy, right from the store layout where Pepsi is $87.00 at your feet and Coke is $0.75 at eye level, down to the personalized coupons they send you in the mail. But the big stores that don't have loyalty cards are still slurping up data; they just get it from your credit card and…

Pay cash, wear a hat and a mask in store, decline to give them PII. It’s a pretty simple and effective solution.

The 86.9-87.5 kg, 170-178 cm hat+mask guy without a cell phone wants to buy security and self defense items.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#119

Post by josefresco »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #46
_wldu wrote: post #20

Walmart makes this rather obvious. I was walking down a medicine aisle the other day, and I looked up and saw my face on a screen with green lines outlining it.

Last time I was in a Walmart, it felt like they were doing everything they could to communicate they didn't want me to shop at their store. * Gates at the main entrances * Cameras everywhere * "Security" walking through the store in clearly marked uniforms * Self checkouts with UX that clearly communicates a lack of trust.

It depends entirely on the specific Walmart and the neighborhood where it's located. I've been traveling the US this summer and have stopped at many Walmarts. Some are well stocked, beautifully maintained stores that you waltz into and out of without a care or delay. Some are run like minimum security prisons, with cameras, gates, security and screens to show you you're on camera (mostly in the makeup isles).

Some Walmart are well stocked, spacious and clean. Some are ravaged, dirty and filled with tourists. It's really amazing the variety of quality.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#120

Post by tiagod »

oramit wrote: post #116

I'm honestly perplexed by the discussion here. Why should I care that a grocery store is using this? They already have camera systems - what is it about feeding that data into a facial recognition algorithm that is so awful? They want to identify who their customers are and already do a good job of it with loyalty cards. I often have to show my ID when I buy beer. I'm in a public place where I have no expectation of…

I find it absurd. But I live in a county where CCTV can only be used for loss-prevention.
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