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Material You – The next stage for Material Design

material.io

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Re: Material You – The next stage for Material Design

#111

Post by minusf »

reikonomusha wrote: post #100
izacus wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work extensively with Android and Apple iOS/macOS (as part of mobile development and simply as a user of hardware) and I think your claim about Apple is pretty much disconnected from reality. As soon as you step outside the marketing veneer, there's plenty of Apple that is really far from "pervasive" of their "identity". Try straying a bit outside the most commonly used documentation pages, most commonly used custo…

I don’t think you’re right, but what’s more interesting to me is just how much our opinions seem to diverge! I’m a developer as well, I use Linux (Debian with StumpWM) as my daily driver, and Mac for work. I’m pretty familiar with Macs, macOS, and iOS I’d say. There could be so many reasons why we diverge, but I suspect we’d probably disagree on what we consider a “design philosophy” or “the details” in the first pla…

with every release macos introduces design elements that are inconsistent with apples own design language, and/or simply horrible (like the notifications icon in preferences _with_ a dot).

esp big sur moved in a big way to a more fisher price look.

that it all seems more consistent than all the rest is just a sad statement more about them than apple...

Re: Material You – The next stage for Material Design

#112

Post by hesarenu »

cesarvarela wrote: post #108
hesarenu wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general UI design is far simpler cleaner than iOS. iOS feels very dated. Notification dropdown is a big UI improvement. Navigation is better because of back button unlike the tiny back link in iOS. They did change the time picker which i had issues before because of the scroll picker(my hands are sweaty). These are wrt iPad, which i use mostly for testing iOS apps not a normal day to day use.

Let me blow your mind: If you swipe anywhere from the left edge of the display to the right, you can go to the previous screen, kind of like pages in a book. (Doesn’t work on all apps, probably from developers than aren’t aware of the convention)

Let me blow your mind

My fellow developer did not know that you can long press on mac bottom bar like for years. He observed it when i did it. I think i even noticed it after many days. That's the problem with hidden gestures. Android the same issue when you hide the bottom bar. I just keep it on, swiping is anyway difficult when palms are sweaty.

Re: Material You – The next stage for Material Design

#113

Post by minusf »

izacus wrote: post #74
isaacimagine wrote: post #27

Seems like this will be an unpopular opinion, but I like the design. How appealing a design is is personal preference, and I think a lot of the elements advertised, say, squiggly sliders, show the flexibility of the system; it's not like all sliders will be squiggly, but it opens up the possibility while still working with the rest of the design language. The emphasis on customization is important as well - a more fl…

> Seems like this will be an unpopular opinion, but I like the design. There seems to be a huge amount of positive feedback, both from media and Android users, so it's not an unpopular opinion at all. It seems to mostly be unpopular opinion between existing iOS users :)

I'm also an android user and i never liked material too much. come to think of it never liked too much any of the previous android designs either. it's not that material is bad, is just bland and doesn't work for me. although i find the floating "+" circles positively horrible.

Re: Material You – The next stage for Material Design

#114

Post by coldtea »

ywoski wrote: post #94
pjmlp wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh but they do, each of them wants us to write apps and devices with their OS/technology stack. Lets see which one of them wins out the Google political wars on the long term of Google Attention Span (TM).

Eh kind of but you are mixing the OS with the application framework to make it look like more things exist. PWA for ChromeOS, Flutter for Fuchsia (but yes it is multi-platform), JetPack Compose for Android (but does have some multi-platform stuff coming out). So really it's three. PWAs, Flutter, and Jetpack Compose. Of which I think PWAs rightly exist alongside a native solution. Flutter is sort of the odd one out an…

>PWA for ChromeOS, Flutter for Fuchsia (but yes it is multi-platform), JetPack Compose for Android (but does have some multi-platform stuff coming out). So really it's three.

I don't think the parents point is that all those are frameworks.

Rather that they have two many frameworks and platforms, with no coherent unified platform strategy (Apple's iOS, macOS, ipadOS, watchOS are all the same under the hood, and their UI frameworks are also unified or getting there fast).

Re: Material You – The next stage for Material Design

#115

Post by isaacimagine »

izacus wrote: post #74
isaacimagine wrote: post #27

Seems like this will be an unpopular opinion, but I like the design. How appealing a design is is personal preference, and I think a lot of the elements advertised, say, squiggly sliders, show the flexibility of the system; it's not like all sliders will be squiggly, but it opens up the possibility while still working with the rest of the design language. The emphasis on customization is important as well - a more fl…

> Seems like this will be an unpopular opinion, but I like the design. There seems to be a huge amount of positive feedback, both from media and Android users, so it's not an unpopular opinion at all. It seems to mostly be unpopular opinion between existing iOS users :)

I posted this at a time when there were no other positive comments in the thread, so not the biggest sample size :)

Re: Material You – The next stage for Material Design

#116

Post by dragonwriter »

piva00 wrote: post #105
dragonwriter wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m absolutely puzzled why a behemoth like Google can’t have exceptional, human design. While people selling design languages like to pretend that they are objective, design is largely aesthetics which is largely subjective. IMO, Google is consistently far better than Apple, which consistently, at least since the iPhone era, has come off visibly trying to hard (though recently less so than in the over-the-top skeum…

Design isn't just aesthetics... Design is interaction, is taking care of how responsive this or that action can be, it's much more about HCI than on how things look like. You are focusing too much on the visual aspects of design, you can't say that Google is consistently far better than Apple in overall design, you might prefer Google's aesthetics but design as a whole I can't really agree with you.

> You are focusing too much on the visual aspects of design

No, I’m not; aesthetic preferences are not limited to the visual, and preferences and relative importance of all the elements you identify are within the scope of subjective aesthetic preference. Though grandparent who I was responding to was focussed entirely on the visual—their whole criticism of Google design was: “...end up looking juvenile and Fisher-Price-like. On mobile, the font is too big and too ragged. The colors and shapes look like a Kleenex box aesthetic. The spacing isn’t all that great.”—so if I was focussed, even exclusively, on the visual aspects of design in my response it would have been appropriate in context.

Re: Material You – The next stage for Material Design

#118

Post by lopis »

izacus wrote: post #72
reikonomusha wrote: post #15

I can’t help but feel Google’s only consistency is in their trying to be clean, cool, and innovative, but not actually getting the details right, and ending up looking juvenile and Fisher-Price-like. On mobile, the font is too big and too ragged. The colors and shapes look like a Kleenex box aesthetic. The spacing isn’t all that great. I’m absolutely puzzled why a behemoth like Google can’t have exceptional, human de…

To be honest this just sounds like you're used to whatever Apple is doing and nothing Google would do (except outright copy iOS) would feel "ok" for you. That's fine - we get used to stuff and rant when it changes in ways we don't expect. But the beta on my Android phone looks amazing and IMO better than iPadOS I have on a tablet.

Nah. I've never used any Apple products besides occasionally using someone's iPhone. I'm not used to the UX and to the gestures, but the interface is strikingly consistent. There's still so much clutter in Android. Fortunately, on Android you can customize most things, but Google is restricting more and more what apps can actually touch.

Re: Material You – The next stage for Material Design

#119

Post by KineticLensman »

izacus wrote: post #96
reikonomusha wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. You really have to appreciate the scale of Apple’s efforts, and look beyond iOS, which everybody always gets fixated on. This is much broader than “I prefer how iOS looks”. Their documentation, hardware, software, marketing, audio communications, videos and commercials, stores, clothing, packaging, etc. exude consistency and extraordinary care to visual design. Apple’s design is pervasive and truly their…

I work extensively with Android and Apple iOS/macOS (as part of mobile development and simply as a user of hardware) and I think your claim about Apple is pretty much disconnected from reality. As soon as you step outside the marketing veneer, there's plenty of Apple that is really far from "pervasive" of their "identity". Try straying a bit outside the most commonly used documentation pages, most commonly used custo…

> Try straying a bit outside the most commonly used documentation pages, most commonly used customer journeys or even use macOS for extended bit of time and you'll see how your claim simply doesn't hold up

I've experienced this recently, as a competent (DSLR) photographer trying to find out what I could do with the camera on my new iPhone Pro. I picked up more by browsing TikTok than from Apple's own material. One example was how to create long-exposure photographs from a 'live' photo. The function was actually discoverable through the iOS interface but I wouldn't have thought to try it in the way it was being used in TikTok tutorial.

(whether the long exposure effect is comparable with the equivalent from a dedicated camera is a different question)

Re: Material You – The next stage for Material Design

#120

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

slver wrote: post #110
reikonomusha wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree; I believe Apple is a great—if not the best—example at the company-scale we speak of. Apple has goofed many times, but on the whole, their design philosophy has been both consistent and excellent. Apple typically gets certain new UI paradigms wrong, but doesn’t flub design on the whole: typography, spacing, white space, colors, animation, etc. With all that said, it is difficult to speak purely objectively…

Apple may be the best example, but to me iOS7 remains a huge shift to shocking mediocrity they're still recovering from. They're good, but they used to be better. Alas.

Ive has gone, and there's been a notable uptick in the workability of product designs and (more subjectively) in visual coherence.

Ive did best under Jobs. There were numerous disasters when Jobs was no longer around to keep Ive on the rails, including iOS7, the butterfly keyboard, the touch bar, and the clunky first few iterations of Watch itself.

Big Sur is more Fisher-Price than it could be. Visually it's not a classic, but it's also better that mediocre.

But the new iMacs are probably the best iMacs ever, without the backward references and very visible Design™ of the post-Jobs Ive years.

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