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Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

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Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#111

Post by inglor_cz »

baybal2 wrote: post #106
inglor_cz wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two can play this game. Look at Podnistria or Donbas. Belarus split between a Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth 2.0 and a Totally-Not-Russian-Puppet-State, with several thousand young men's graves in between, isn't any better than Belarus today.

One side will have the definite firepower advantage, enough to deal with other be it puppet, not puppet or whatever. You choose what this side will be. Russians have nothing in their coffers they can spare for a puppet project when there will be a battle hardened army a day away from Moscow. It's the best way for NATO to put Russia on defensive. A solid wall of steel from Baltic to Azov to seal it shut from Europe.

"It's the best way for NATO to put Russia on defensive. A solid wall of steel from Baltic to Azov to seal it shut from Europe."

Can you see the problem with NATO?

European countries are unlikely to finance the effort, our armies are for the most part underinvested and their deployment capacity very limited.

France has some capabilities, but it is also bogged down elsewhere (Sahara), because the Islamist threat is more acute for Paris than whatever Russia does.

USA and UK have two decades of nation building behind them and whatever fighting spirit is left, is reserved for a possible confrontation with China. Also, both of them are naval powers, while Belarus is a landlocked country. Not to say that they are unable to fight on land, but it is a disadvantage for them.

If you like The Lord of the Rings, we are sort-of similar to Gondor just prior to the war. Not enough power and will to hold Mordor in a siege.

The good news is that Russia is fairly strained and it is not a full Mordor either. More like a group of orc chieftains from the Misty Mountains.

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#112

Post by pjc50 »

baybal2 wrote: post #108
pjc50 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not while their nukes still work. We had all this discussion in the 1960s, and the underlying reality of that potential war has not changed. The "border area" has got a lot more chaotic - Vienna is definitely the West, and Minsk definitely not, but it's less clear how aligned everywhere in the middle is. But an actual war would obliterate both sides.

> But an actual war would obliterate both sides. No, it wouldn't. Europe 560M people, and the world's biggest economy as a EU bloc. Russia 139M people with only 20M of military age, of which 1/3 fares from Caucasus, and other less than loyal ethnic republics. A Russian first strike on NATO block will take down 40M-50M at maximum even if Russia will only target large population centres. The retaliation busts Moscow —…

> A Russian first strike on NATO block will take down 40M-50M

I'm glad you agree with me on the obliteration.

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#113

Post by Nemrod67 »

dandanua wrote: post #99
ohashi wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From his bot master probably

Nah, their neural network is trained to produce some random sh*t that sound blamable and vicious. Didn't you heard the stories about crucified boy by Ukrainian army in Donbass? Russian state TV translate this kind of madness 24/7 for years now. The war is imminent, it's just a matter of time. It's impossible to dissipate that hate peacefully. Also, all Russian society is living in a hateful state, towards many things…

well then, didn't you hear about the policeman bludgeoned to death with an extinctor by armed revolutionaries in the US?

Disinformation is everywhere, always.

We as a Civilisation have to be able somehow to start accepting that "idiots" and "deplorables" from any side are just like us, humans....

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#114

Post by puszczyk »

levosmetalo wrote: post #38
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets imagine the coup is orchestrated by the West. The guy currently in charge is corrupt and a murderer. Is living in Belarus going to get worse without him?

List of countries where "the West" organized a coup against a "corrupt murderer dictator" to establish "democratic elected government": - Ukraine - Syria - Libya - Georgia - Iraq - Iran - Afghanistan - Yugoslavia - Venezuela - Cuba - ex-Yugoslavia - Chile - ... All those countries were devastated by the "democratization". I would like to see one example where that went good for the local population in general and whe…

What about Poland, the Baltic States, Czechia and Slovakia, Hungary? Also devastated? I’m sure we’d do much better with our friends in Moscow calling the shots.

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#115

Post by baybal2 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #111
baybal2 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One side will have the definite firepower advantage, enough to deal with other be it puppet, not puppet or whatever. You choose what this side will be. Russians have nothing in their coffers they can spare for a puppet project when there will be a battle hardened army a day away from Moscow. It's the best way for NATO to put Russia on defensive. A solid wall of steel from Baltic to Azov to seal it shut from Europe.

"It's the best way for NATO to put Russia on defensive. A solid wall of steel from Baltic to Azov to seal it shut from Europe." Can you see the problem with NATO? European countries are unlikely to finance the effort, our armies are for the most part underinvested and their deployment capacity very limited. France has some capabilities, but it is also bogged down elsewhere (Sahara), because the Islamist threat is mor…

I very much see this very problem with NATO.

It's exactly because of this NATO's best move is to commit to one defence line.

Even if depleted, and under invested. The power of EU NATO members combined will be more than enough in this scenario to hold a line with a few choke points in between plains, and impassable forests.

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#116

Post by maratc »

lb1lf wrote: post #72
liaukovv wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in the face of growing russian agression nato will relax it's rules.

-More likely, rules will toughen up. The prime purpose of NATO is deterrence; no-one wants to be forced into a shooting war - hence I expect NATO to be very wary of accepting a member which may invoke article 5 pretty much the moment the accession ceremony is over. The Ukraine would have a much easier time getting into NATO if relations with Russia were cordial; however, as the mere act of exercising their sovereignt…

> The Ukraine would have a much easier time getting into NATO if relations with Russia were cordial

If relations with Russia were cordial, the Ukraine would have no need to get into NATO to begin with. In that ideal world, things would look different; we don't live in that world, sadly.

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#117

Post by boomboomsubban »

jholman wrote: post #89
levosmetalo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

List of countries where "the West" organized a coup against a "corrupt murderer dictator" to establish "democratic elected government": - Ukraine - Syria - Libya - Georgia - Iraq - Iran - Afghanistan - Yugoslavia - Venezuela - Cuba - ex-Yugoslavia - Chile - ... All those countries were devastated by the "democratization". I would like to see one example where that went good for the local population in general and whe…

Japan? South Korea? Just brainstorming, here.

The US propped up murderous dictators in both, more explicitly in South Korea but they also helped a war criminal entrench the LDP in Japan. Their shift to democracy happened much later and was not the result of a Western coup.

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#118

Post by inglor_cz »

baybal2 wrote: post #115
inglor_cz wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's the best way for NATO to put Russia on defensive. A solid wall of steel from Baltic to Azov to seal it shut from Europe." Can you see the problem with NATO? European countries are unlikely to finance the effort, our armies are for the most part underinvested and their deployment capacity very limited. France has some capabilities, but it is also bogged down elsewhere (Sahara), because the Islamist threat is mor…

I very much see this very problem with NATO. It's exactly because of this NATO's best move is to commit to one defence line. Even if depleted, and under invested. The power of EU NATO members combined will be more than enough in this scenario to hold a line with a few choke points in between plains, and impassable forests.

IDK. "Holding the line" scenarios in last 100 years generally ended up badly for the defenders: expensive and ineffective. Modern wars are all about movement, maneuver and sudden concentration of power in a spot chosen by the attacker.

If the recent Nagorno Karabakh war is of any use as an example, Russians and Russian-trained officers were unable to hold their positions against killer drones. Drones are cheap and their destruction in combat does not fuel anti-war sentiments at home, unlike a stream of coffins draped in flags.

But given that Russians are not stupid, they are probably working on some anti-drone strategy as well.

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#119

Post by dfadsadsf »

baybal2 wrote: post #108
pjc50 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not while their nukes still work. We had all this discussion in the 1960s, and the underlying reality of that potential war has not changed. The "border area" has got a lot more chaotic - Vienna is definitely the West, and Minsk definitely not, but it's less clear how aligned everywhere in the middle is. But an actual war would obliterate both sides.

> But an actual war would obliterate both sides. No, it wouldn't. Europe 560M people, and the world's biggest economy as a EU bloc. Russia 139M people with only 20M of military age, of which 1/3 fares from Caucasus, and other less than loyal ethnic republics. A Russian first strike on NATO block will take down 40M-50M at maximum even if Russia will only target large population centres. The retaliation busts Moscow —…

In 10 years after that war, Chinese military bases in Moscow, Minsk and Paris will ensure European co-prosperity sphere and harmonious development on the continent.

Seriously - you want to risk hot war between Europe and Russia with millions in collateral losses because Lukashenko put a few dozen people in prison and single digit number of people died in protests? Do you also advocate machine gunning jaywalkers?

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#120

Post by baybal2 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #118
baybal2 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much see this very problem with NATO. It's exactly because of this NATO's best move is to commit to one defence line. Even if depleted, and under invested. The power of EU NATO members combined will be more than enough in this scenario to hold a line with a few choke points in between plains, and impassable forests.

IDK. "Holding the line" scenarios in last 100 years generally ended up badly for the defenders: expensive and ineffective. Modern wars are all about movement, maneuver and sudden concentration of power in a spot chosen by the attacker. If the recent Nagorno Karabakh war is of any use as an example, Russians and Russian-trained officers were unable to hold their positions against killer drones. Drones are cheap and th…

Saying this, it's not a literal line of course, but a meaningful strategic objective, and rough position for offensive staging.

Yes, yes, yes. Long lines on warfare are an invitation for a breakthrough by a more concentrated force, which is what every Russian military textbook tells.

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