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WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

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Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#111
post #13

To be honest I feel a bit disenfranchised. I’ve used all my energy to convert all my friends to signal when the WhatsApp privacy policy fiasco happened and now they’re saying it was a waste of time since they don’t want anything to do with bitcoins.. I can’t blame them as I also don’t want this on my messaging app. I feel like I will just give up and use WhatsApp and assume that I only had privacy pre-internet.

What in the world? They don’t have to use it. This has to be one of the worst arguments I’ve ever seen. Did your friends throw their iPhones in the trash when ApplePay came about?

The argument is "this app, which promises privacy and security in ways I do not have the skills to verify, is made by people who also think cryptocurrencies are a good idea". That is a pretty compelling argument to people who think cryptocurrencies are all about scams and/or useless pollution (a sizeable portion of society). It suggests that the people behind Signal may not be as trustworthy as they're made out to be.

Whether or not a bunch of competent security gurus on HN assure us that yes, Signal is still great and no, Moxie didn't go nuts, doesn't really influence the validity of that argument outside tech circles. Don't forget that we've all spent years training our aunts and nephews to not trust the companies that make the apps they use. It's a major marketing mistake and they should've known better.

Also, ApplePay has nowhere near the same stigma associated with it as cryptocurrencies do, I think your comparison is silly.

FWIW, if Signal was new today and someone would pitch me "a super secure messaging app with built-in crypto payments" I'd not easily get enthusiastic. I've been trained to treat any pitch that includes the word "crypto" or "token" with high suspicion, because of the crap magnets those technologies have been historically. Too many people's "get rich quick" schemes sounded exactly like that a few years ago.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#112
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, their opinion could be that Bitcoin is extremely wasteful and damaging to our environment for very little value, and so they do not want to support any organization that supports Bitcoin. A boycott, if you will. I’m not arguing that position but I’m just saying that if that is the case, then their boycott is more reasonable than say a “stickers” boycott.

Electric cars have zero emissions, bitcoin has zero emissions ;) Seriously, most mining farms are using geothermal or water dams generators.

Electricity is fungible.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#114

My personal experience is that I moved some friends to Telegram and kept family in WhatsApp.The time using the phone decreased, I found having 2 messengers more beneficial as I will switch only when there is some relevant conversation or topic happening.

Telegram is LESS secure than WhatsApp.

https://www.wired.com/story/telegram-encryption-whatsapp-set...

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#115
post #13

To be honest I feel a bit disenfranchised. I’ve used all my energy to convert all my friends to signal when the WhatsApp privacy policy fiasco happened and now they’re saying it was a waste of time since they don’t want anything to do with bitcoins.. I can’t blame them as I also don’t want this on my messaging app. I feel like I will just give up and use WhatsApp and assume that I only had privacy pre-internet.

What in the world? They don’t have to use it. This has to be one of the worst arguments I’ve ever seen. Did your friends throw their iPhones in the trash when ApplePay came about?

Is ApplePay associated with endless scams like ICO, extremely problematic security requiring extreme experience to avoid theft, massive transfer fees, lack of usability, endless scams and massive spam advertising such scam everywhere?

And several other serious problems.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#116
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my source - https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/04091... (which points to that same document but somehow draws a different conclusion). Also that document shows a net loss of $230 million in that same period, so not exactly on a strong path to profitability.

does show though that if they could get all 500 million to pay just that $1 a year, they've got $270 million profit.

- 30% goes straight to Apple/Google.

- A large chunk of the world (especially people in developing countries) will be unwilling to pay anything more than $0.

- Even if they want to pay, most of those users won't have a payment method set up. How many of their 2 billion+ users have a credit card or even a bank account?

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#117
post #13

To be honest I feel a bit disenfranchised. I’ve used all my energy to convert all my friends to signal when the WhatsApp privacy policy fiasco happened and now they’re saying it was a waste of time since they don’t want anything to do with bitcoins.. I can’t blame them as I also don’t want this on my messaging app. I feel like I will just give up and use WhatsApp and assume that I only had privacy pre-internet.

This comment has been shown every time a thread related to WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal is posted..

Exactly the same?

Or similar? Because as far as HN bubble/bias/hivemind goes "We like privacy, we like to complain, we dislike cryptocurrency scams" would be a fitting (though partial) description.

So people irritated by that change by Signal being heavily represented on HN is not surprising.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#118

My personal experience is that I moved some friends to Telegram and kept family in WhatsApp.The time using the phone decreased, I found having 2 messengers more beneficial as I will switch only when there is some relevant conversation or topic happening.

Telegram is LESS secure than WhatsApp. https://www.wired.com/story/telegram-encryption-whatsapp-set...

Only if you trust Facebook to implement E2E encryption well in their proprietary code.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#119
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They attempted to force people to pay $1/yr. but that backfired hard because they couldn't figure out how to do the rollout, offered nothing in return, and suffered the backlash of their mismanagement. Even just giving paid users some small extra features or a little icon by their name or something small would have been enough to get people willingly give a dollar rather than their approach of trying to charge people…

You think whatsapp service isn’t worth $1 per year? I was perfectly happy to pay that.

Just because you're happy to pay it doesn't mean 500 million people are all happy to pay it

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#120
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talk to my friends, parents, and family about it a lot. They don't understand it, but they do care. Problem is that they don't understand how to fight back. They do not want to give up on Facebook. They also are afraid to switch to a service like Signal because "no one is there." So I think they care, but there's a big sense of helplessness. Honestly that's why I like projects like Signal. There's no way I can get…

> They also are afraid to switch to a service like Signal because "no one is there." I've been thinking about this a bit, and I'm going to stop short of asking people to switch, and just try to get them to install it (and maybe even get them to casually suggest their friends do the same, if the opportunity arises). It's a hopefully small, risk-free step to take, and the more people that have installs, the more likely…

I work in tech and I don't know a single person on Signal. It was already hard enough to get my family to start using WhatsApp over the years, and I still get messages from some of them over Skype(!!!!) for some reason. Frankly, I have no strength for yet another switch, I'm staying with WhatsApp for the time being.
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