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WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

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Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#71

Post by throw4738 »

hudon wrote: post #62
godelski wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they don’t want anything to do with bitcoins Honestly, this is a bad argument. You can use Signal and never send a gif or stickers. You don't have to do anything with ~~stickers~~crypto when using Signal. It is an opt-in feature that is probably going to not be used my 90% of people. This is just a bad argument surrounding the whole ordeal. Now the arguments about: regulations, Moxie's involvement (stated he has no…

Well, their opinion could be that Bitcoin is extremely wasteful and damaging to our environment for very little value, and so they do not want to support any organization that supports Bitcoin. A boycott, if you will. I’m not arguing that position but I’m just saying that if that is the case, then their boycott is more reasonable than say a “stickers” boycott.

Electric cars have zero emissions, bitcoin has zero emissions ;)

Seriously, most mining farms are using geothermal or water dams generators.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#72

Post by Sunspark »

aloknnikhil wrote: post #44
godelski wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they don’t want anything to do with bitcoins Honestly, this is a bad argument. You can use Signal and never send a gif or stickers. You don't have to do anything with ~~stickers~~crypto when using Signal. It is an opt-in feature that is probably going to not be used my 90% of people. This is just a bad argument surrounding the whole ordeal. Now the arguments about: regulations, Moxie's involvement (stated he has no…

It maybe a bad argument but it's a practical view. Governments around the world (see: India, China) have strict laws around crypto. By law of association, any service that remotely mentions this is severely scrutinized. I can hardly blame my friends if they want no part of this.

Crypto is so strange. You claim ownership over a string of 1s and 0s. Exclusive rights.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#73

Post by Sunspark »

godelski wrote: post #36
goldenchrome wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think non-nerds really think about privacy online all that much. This privacy catastrophe is only felt in places like HN.

I talk to my friends, parents, and family about it a lot. They don't understand it, but they do care. Problem is that they don't understand how to fight back. They do not want to give up on Facebook. They also are afraid to switch to a service like Signal because "no one is there." So I think they care, but there's a big sense of helplessness. Honestly that's why I like projects like Signal. There's no way I can get…

It's interesting how people turn into such app misers when it comes to messengers. It's upsetting to have multiple different ones, even though they don't eat up disk space.

Some are very loyal to the Zuckerberg offerings. They ride or die with the Zuckster.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#74

Post by Sunspark »

kelnos wrote: post #59
godelski wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talk to my friends, parents, and family about it a lot. They don't understand it, but they do care. Problem is that they don't understand how to fight back. They do not want to give up on Facebook. They also are afraid to switch to a service like Signal because "no one is there." So I think they care, but there's a big sense of helplessness. Honestly that's why I like projects like Signal. There's no way I can get…

> They also are afraid to switch to a service like Signal because "no one is there." I've been thinking about this a bit, and I'm going to stop short of asking people to switch, and just try to get them to install it (and maybe even get them to casually suggest their friends do the same, if the opportunity arises). It's a hopefully small, risk-free step to take, and the more people that have installs, the more likely…

You could show them this Signal commercial. https://twitter.com/signalapp/status/1354915823501025280?s=2...

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#75

Post by slickdork »

nzgrover wrote: post #64

Why is Wire never mentioned in these discussions on HN, is there something I'm missing? Seems like the most secure option to me: https://wire.com/en/security/

I've never heard of wire but it looks good, aside from the pricing.

I'm hoping the future is a migration to a protocol such as Matrix, rather than users endlessly hoping from one product to another until they get sold out.

https://matrix.org/

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#76

Post by Aeolun »

paxys wrote: post #35
nopato wrote: post #13

To be honest I feel a bit disenfranchised. I’ve used all my energy to convert all my friends to signal when the WhatsApp privacy policy fiasco happened and now they’re saying it was a waste of time since they don’t want anything to do with bitcoins.. I can’t blame them as I also don’t want this on my messaging app. I feel like I will just give up and use WhatsApp and assume that I only had privacy pre-internet.

They could also use Signal and not have anything to do with bitcoins..

Signal will now forever be tainted by crypto, even if the feature never actually makes it into the app.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#77

Post by chii »

ryandrake wrote: post #15
foolinaround wrote: post #2

In Jan, there was a big outcry, i thought all would move to signal. I have about 25% of the conversations in signal, but especially for groups, whatsapp is so sticky, that they seem to have broadly failed in signal, and are back to whatsapp. I continue to have individual conversations on signal with most friends, but the idea of being able to leave whatsapp seems to be much tougher than I thought.

The way I see it, you can choose to be part of the problem or not. And with a product that gets stronger the more people use it, then using it is part of the problem. You can’t complain about how So-And-So company’s products are bad, but then say “but I can’t bear to stop using em!” I cut all of FB and their ecosystem out of my life years ago. Can’t say this one person out of billions has had an effect on the company…

> “but I can’t bear to stop using em!”

well, it requires sacrifice on your part to stop messaging your friends. Most people would not give up their friends for "the greater good" of stopping privacy intrusion (which won't have an effect until the majority of people give up whatsapp first).

I can see why most people won't fight the good fight.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#78

Post by Aeolun »

el_dev_hell wrote: post #8
foolinaround wrote: post #2

In Jan, there was a big outcry, i thought all would move to signal. I have about 25% of the conversations in signal, but especially for groups, whatsapp is so sticky, that they seem to have broadly failed in signal, and are back to whatsapp. I continue to have individual conversations on signal with most friends, but the idea of being able to leave whatsapp seems to be much tougher than I thought.

Throwing in my anecdotal experience. I noticed something very similar. About 25% of one-on-one conversations are now in Signal. Another 25% are in iMessage, which is a very easy sell for iOS users. I've had a terrible time with group chats. One large chat is occurring in iMessage (very poor experience). Another large chat is occurring in Discord, which has been fantastic, but it changes the dynamic and caused a few f…

I have absolutely no issues with Signal group chat? Where did this rainbow puke?

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#79

Post by Aeolun »

hjek wrote: post #31
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Signal saw that movement, and decided instead of focusing all their development effort in making sure the user experience for all these new users was top notch and developing in the open, instead to push a cryptocoin that no one has heard of before but one which their principals likely have a stash of. Given Signal's behavior, I am not going to waste any friendship capital trying to convince my friends to switch…

WhatsApp have been focusing on payments lately[0] so it only makes sense for Signal to put efforts into that, too. [0]: https://blog.whatsapp.com/send-payments-in-india-with-whatsa...

If it’s actual payments, yes. If it’s some weird fully owned cryptocoin, no.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#80

Post by Aeolun »

frombody wrote: post #29
paxys wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WhatsApp never had a real business model. Its peak revenue, disclosed by Facebook at the time of acquisition, was ~$1.5 million/year, and this was when they had 500 million active users. It was always running on VC cash.

They attempted to force people to pay $1/yr. but that backfired hard because they couldn't figure out how to do the rollout, offered nothing in return, and suffered the backlash of their mismanagement. Even just giving paid users some small extra features or a little icon by their name or something small would have been enough to get people willingly give a dollar rather than their approach of trying to charge people…

You think whatsapp service isn’t worth $1 per year? I was perfectly happy to pay that.
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