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WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

androidpolice.com

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Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#61

Post by minot »

lmm wrote: post #43
nopato wrote: post #13

To be honest I feel a bit disenfranchised. I’ve used all my energy to convert all my friends to signal when the WhatsApp privacy policy fiasco happened and now they’re saying it was a waste of time since they don’t want anything to do with bitcoins.. I can’t blame them as I also don’t want this on my messaging app. I feel like I will just give up and use WhatsApp and assume that I only had privacy pre-internet.

Any time there's a project that's almost open-source, almost open standards, that's how it ends up going. If you'd gone for Matrix you wouldn't have that problem, because even if their developers decide to embed some bitcoin nonsense into the official client, the protocol and ecosystem is much bigger than that.

You might say that well I’m no worse off than before which is true but still feels weird that I was unable to use my existing riot im account when I wanted to sign into Mozilla’s riot server. I ended up creating a different login for Mozilla’s riot.

I think of myself as a technophile but element/matrix/riot made me eat the humble pie.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#62

Post by hudon »

godelski wrote: post #34
nopato wrote: post #13

To be honest I feel a bit disenfranchised. I’ve used all my energy to convert all my friends to signal when the WhatsApp privacy policy fiasco happened and now they’re saying it was a waste of time since they don’t want anything to do with bitcoins.. I can’t blame them as I also don’t want this on my messaging app. I feel like I will just give up and use WhatsApp and assume that I only had privacy pre-internet.

> they don’t want anything to do with bitcoins Honestly, this is a bad argument. You can use Signal and never send a gif or stickers. You don't have to do anything with ~~stickers~~crypto when using Signal. It is an opt-in feature that is probably going to not be used my 90% of people. This is just a bad argument surrounding the whole ordeal. Now the arguments about: regulations, Moxie's involvement (stated he has no…

Well, their opinion could be that Bitcoin is extremely wasteful and damaging to our environment for very little value, and so they do not want to support any organization that supports Bitcoin. A boycott, if you will.

I’m not arguing that position but I’m just saying that if that is the case, then their boycott is more reasonable than say a “stickers” boycott.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#63

Post by MAGZine »

saurik wrote: post #46

That big privacy policy update everyone was complaining about was--again--only about providing hosted e2e clients in the cloud for Facebook Business customers, and had nothing to do with end user to end user chats: the goal was to solve the experience problem of a company wanting to provide a chatbot and realizing "omg, I have to host all of the chat client parts myself and build some way for random people in my orga…

People are mad about whatsapp because it used to be a good platform that they now feel compelled to abandon. I don't think people have any particular allegiance to fb messenger—it exists and is something to be tolerated.

the whole "but the privacy policy changes weren't that bad!!!" to which I say: it was simply the straw that broke the camel's back. People didn't want their metadata harvestsed by FB, and this was a convenient time to jump.

FB apologists will be quick to note that FB had access to WA metadata for years unless if you dug through some menus for an opt-out button (now removed). I have no clue how they think this is a compelling argument.

Just because the dam hasn't broken yet doesn't mean that you can't keep chizzling away at it. eventually it'll break. I'd argue that WA would have never been in this mess if they stayed as an arms-length corporation and were left to their own devices. But no: FB has an immediate desire to gather the biggest heap of user data possible. As they should: it's how they make their money. But that doesn't mean people aren't allowed protest.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#65

Post by godelski »

spicybright wrote: post #51
godelski wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talk to my friends, parents, and family about it a lot. They don't understand it, but they do care. Problem is that they don't understand how to fight back. They do not want to give up on Facebook. They also are afraid to switch to a service like Signal because "no one is there." So I think they care, but there's a big sense of helplessness. Honestly that's why I like projects like Signal. There's no way I can get…

Their reasons are completely valid honestly. There's nothing that feels like you have no power than using a chat app with none of your friends on it. Only way to really take power back is make an app better than what's on the market, and have it respect your privacy. A very, very tall order, but I think it's the only way we can really take power away from big tech and give it back to the people.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I'm not trying to say that their concerns are invalid. They very much are valid.

I don't think you can win by just having a better app. Marketing plays a big role. So something like Signal is going to be a major underdog because OSS and freeware don't have the same cashflow to do marketing. What I'm trying to say is that we need to be that marketing. Talking about data and privacy _is_ that marketing.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#66

Post by dvcrn »

nzgrover wrote: post #64

Why is Wire never mentioned in these discussions on HN, is there something I'm missing? Seems like the most secure option to me: https://wire.com/en/security/

People don't use the most secure option, but the option that other people they want to be in contact with use.

I've never heard of wire, so I doubt any of my friends or family have either

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#67

Post by godelski »

hudon wrote: post #62
godelski wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they don’t want anything to do with bitcoins Honestly, this is a bad argument. You can use Signal and never send a gif or stickers. You don't have to do anything with ~~stickers~~crypto when using Signal. It is an opt-in feature that is probably going to not be used my 90% of people. This is just a bad argument surrounding the whole ordeal. Now the arguments about: regulations, Moxie's involvement (stated he has no…

Well, their opinion could be that Bitcoin is extremely wasteful and damaging to our environment for very little value, and so they do not want to support any organization that supports Bitcoin. A boycott, if you will. I’m not arguing that position but I’m just saying that if that is the case, then their boycott is more reasonable than say a “stickers” boycott.

Aren't premined coins much less harmful to the environment? I'm not saying this is an argument for using it, but this is definitely true.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#68

Post by trident5000 »

aloknnikhil wrote: post #44
godelski wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they don’t want anything to do with bitcoins Honestly, this is a bad argument. You can use Signal and never send a gif or stickers. You don't have to do anything with ~~stickers~~crypto when using Signal. It is an opt-in feature that is probably going to not be used my 90% of people. This is just a bad argument surrounding the whole ordeal. Now the arguments about: regulations, Moxie's involvement (stated he has no…

It maybe a bad argument but it's a practical view. Governments around the world (see: India, China) have strict laws around crypto. By law of association, any service that remotely mentions this is severely scrutinized. I can hardly blame my friends if they want no part of this.

A small group of adults telling all other adults they cannot touch a certain asset. What a time to be a slave.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#69

Post by trident5000 »

hudon wrote: post #62
godelski wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they don’t want anything to do with bitcoins Honestly, this is a bad argument. You can use Signal and never send a gif or stickers. You don't have to do anything with ~~stickers~~crypto when using Signal. It is an opt-in feature that is probably going to not be used my 90% of people. This is just a bad argument surrounding the whole ordeal. Now the arguments about: regulations, Moxie's involvement (stated he has no…

Well, their opinion could be that Bitcoin is extremely wasteful and damaging to our environment for very little value, and so they do not want to support any organization that supports Bitcoin. A boycott, if you will. I’m not arguing that position but I’m just saying that if that is the case, then their boycott is more reasonable than say a “stickers” boycott.

Working so the government can piss away my savings is extremely wasteful to my body and time.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#70

Post by LordAtlas »

foolinaround wrote: post #2

In Jan, there was a big outcry, i thought all would move to signal. I have about 25% of the conversations in signal, but especially for groups, whatsapp is so sticky, that they seem to have broadly failed in signal, and are back to whatsapp. I continue to have individual conversations on signal with most friends, but the idea of being able to leave whatsapp seems to be much tougher than I thought.

The Signal UX for groups is truly terrible. It looks like a rainbow puked in there. And heaven help you if you use their crappy desktop client. It doesn't sync with your mobile client unless you open the app on your phone, and then syncs everything slowly, which messes up your group chats if you happen to send another message in between.
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