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Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

theintercept.com

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Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#111

Post by formerly_proven »

avar wrote: post #23
dragontamer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. By enlisting thousands of young women to watch the knobs and dial buttons. https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/articles/women-who-buil... They didn't even know they were building the bomb. They just had to enter the room, dial knobs back-and-forth for 8-hours/day, and then go home. Today, that sort of stuff SHOULD be a…

The youth unemployment rate in Iran is ~25%, overall rate is 10%. They issue their own fiat currency, and their GDP per capita is comparable to Thailand and Botswana. So yes, they can probably afford to have a bunch of people tweak knobs in a factory all day.

There are many options that lie between "network-connected grey-import PLCs from the 90s" and "have a human tweak a knob to zero a needle scale".

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#112

Post by cyberscientist »

hpcjoe wrote: post #69
cyberscientist wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be honest though, had Iran carried out such attack we would have called it a terrorist attack. I know you're about to go on about how awful Iranian regime is and they SAY they want Israel gone. But remember, Israel actually DOES carry out associations.

I assume you mean "assassinations". Iran funds and supports groups who have declared, and continue to make war on Israel as a proxy for themselves doing it. They are happy to expend every single one of their proxy armies and munitions if they can avoid the direct consequences of action. The groups that Iran supports carry out assassinations. Kidnappings. Mass murder. Direct attacks on non-combatant populations, aka w…

I'm not defending iran.im just saying we build a narrative against one side. Look at your comment, everything you said about Iran usa, Britain and Israel does too. But you highlighted Iran's evil while we excuse "our own" side awful actions.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#113

Post by [deleted] »

xtreme wrote: post #87
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #66

Like them or not the Israeli Defense Force is arguably the most effective military in the world. From the Iron Dome, the Uzi, and the Arrow missile, the IDF has a track record of successful military projects. They seem lean and effective, unlike the US military. The US Military recently has had a track record of project failures from the F-35 to the Comanche helicopter and now they are spending $20B for Microsoft Hol…

The US military is a job creation program first, and a defense force second.

[deleted]

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#114

Post by throwawayboise »

refenestrator wrote: post #42
nullserver wrote: post #19

Israel is fighting for its existence. Iran leadership routinely makes threats to destroy America and Israel. This often get ignored or dismissed. But like waving a gun in a cops face. Well bad things happen. One nuke will piss America off. One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age.…

There's no indication that Iran is any less deterrable than every other nuclear power. We didn't start WWIII when Kruschev banged his shoe at the UN like a maniac, it would also be a bad idea to do it over Iran's posturing. The US killed their national hero last year and we got a measured, proportionate response rather than lighting Iraq on fire. Trying to pre-emptively "bomb Iran into the stone age" would not only b…

> There's no indication that Iran is any less deterrable than every other nuclear power.

Unlike other nuclear states, Iran is governed by religious zealots.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#115

Post by scatters »

mvzvm wrote: post #50
hoka-one-one wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Israel that much different? It seems like if you're committed to empowering all BIPOC you would not restrict their access to the weaponry needed to defend their homelands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

Israel is not governed by religious law, and has full rights for women, minorities, and LGBTQ. Its basis for most policy is a blend of social democracy and neoliberalism. Its military is purely defensive. I cannot say any of those things about Iran in good faith. Also, the what-about-ism is not a great defense of anything geopolitical btw.

Not governed by religious law? 9000 Israelis get married in neighbouring countries each year because their relationship wouldn't satisfy the Orthodox rabbis who run the show. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#116

Post by dyingkneepad »

Protostome wrote: post #56
sschueller wrote: post #34

So who takes responsibility when one of these attacks results in a meltdown? And why does Iran not have the right to build their own atomic bomb when the US, Russia or China have them and are building new ones? We ALL should be reducing nuclear weapons including the US. But sadly the US has not been taking a leadership role recently Edit: Nice to see that my global nuclear disarmament comment is getting downvoted. /s

There's no such a thing as "rights" in international affairs. International relationships are not managed by what's right or wrong, but according to countries' interests and needs. Now, under this paradigm, we as the free world have to ask ourselves - is it of our interest that Iran will gain access to nuclear weapons? The answer is absolutely no.

Would you please elaborate why? It's not very clear to me.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#117

Post by modo_mario »

nullserver wrote: post #19

Israel is fighting for its existence. Iran leadership routinely makes threats to destroy America and Israel. This often get ignored or dismissed. But like waving a gun in a cops face. Well bad things happen. One nuke will piss America off. One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age.…

>Israel is fighting for its existence.

A Palestinian might find that statement ironic but either way I'd disagree with it. Threaten as they might I don't believe Iran to be suicidal.

>One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely.

Do you think they're building a bigger tsar bomba or something?

>Pushed hard enough they may just so that.

Somehow I think starting an almost unwinnable war that'll probably lead to hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths isn't going to improve Israels security situation.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#118

Post by formerly_proven »

HenryKissinger wrote: post #21
aswanson wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Analog is the future. Steampunk nuke ops.

There is truth in this comment. Parts of the Russian government have reverted to using mechanical typewriters in lieu of computers, which are too susceptible to malicious hacking. Also, the US Navy started instructing enlisted seamen how to navigate at sea by the stars, in case GPS stops working.

But then again the Russians themselves famously placed very difficult to detect bugs in the mechanical typewriters of the American embassy.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#119

Post by karpierz »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #66

Like them or not the Israeli Defense Force is arguably the most effective military in the world. From the Iron Dome, the Uzi, and the Arrow missile, the IDF has a track record of successful military projects. They seem lean and effective, unlike the US military. The US Military recently has had a track record of project failures from the F-35 to the Comanche helicopter and now they are spending $20B for Microsoft Hol…

> arguably the most effective military in the world

Militaries are political tools, and different countries have different goals. It'd be like saying a laptop is better than a data center.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#120

Post by astrea »

yongjik wrote: post #80
nullserver wrote: post #19

Israel is fighting for its existence. Iran leadership routinely makes threats to destroy America and Israel. This often get ignored or dismissed. But like waving a gun in a cops face. Well bad things happen. One nuke will piss America off. One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age.…

> One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. Area of Hiroshima: 350.1 square miles Area of Israel: 8,019 square miles Yeah I'd say [citation needed] for that. > From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age. This really isn't helping you, because if you're an Iranian and your government says "That country over there says their o…

Didn't the Hiroshima bomb have a much smaller effect radius than modern nuclear weapons?
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