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DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

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Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#111
post #93
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GObject keeps working flawlessly, but it is too arcane to newcomers (which are already few because of C itself becoming an arcane art these days) I keep looking for a good excuse to learn Vala. Maybe this is it.

You may also consider doing it in Rust. It's possible to implement GObject subclasses in Rust which little additional overhead as compared to doing it in C, but you get the syntactical niceties of for each loops, traits, and other features of Rust. librsvg makes good use of these bindings, and is undergoing a rewrite in Rust. Gstreamer bindings are also becoming more complete, and example implementations of many of t…

> You may also consider doing it in Rust.

The Vala compiler complains about my code. The Rust one tears it to shreds.

I understand Rust's constructive criticism is coming from a good place, but it's still very harsh ;-)

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The write-once-run-everywhere promise -- Flutter is really good at multi-platform support because it works at the pixel level. So in a browser/web context, all you need (roughly) is a canvas, and to compile the relevant Dart to JS and you're off to the races.

Can you give an example of a flutter app people use by choice outside of android? I think my google wifi app uses it and that's about it, and the google wifi app is not exactly the picture of quality software. The framework seems designed to hold the hand of android developers, not to provide a decent experience to the end user. I have no clue why people keep referencing it as some kind of working cross-platform solu…

Flutter's team is making efforts to improve it on other platforms, iirc it powers Stadia, and the new Google iOT hardware like the Home Hub (or whever they are calling that now) and the new Google TV.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#113

Nice flashy website. Should I just trust and install new OS on my computer? How I know it is safe?

You can't install it, and this early on you shouldnt. My word alone probably does not carry much weight, but it is relatively safe, likely safer for usage than most current distributions where the only form of security is an up to date kernel. We opted to use a sort of stateful/stateless security model, where the system is stateless and varified on boot, and user files are stored inside an encrypted partition with relatively strict permissions for now.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#114
post #98
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure what other than incompetence as a programmers is causing your expensive PhDs "fright of their lifetime". Memory management, handwritten loops, pointers everywhere, absence of ready made data structures, error handling (or its absence,) epopeia with C strings, sanitizing inputs, and nausea from the slightest smell of SIMD, or basic binary hackery to begin with.

Those are needed for the tasks C was made to handle: complete control over everything being a primary one. If you do not need those tasks you do not need C. And if you do then get used to it.

Odd how well rust seems to manage to avoid them.

C was amazing when it was introduced, but is as archaic as COBOL today. We are stuck with it because of legacy.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#115
post #81
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything Linus was extra-humble when announcing it, kind of the opposite of what's going on here. This kind of marketing copy would be appropriate for a mature product, as it is it rubs some people the wrong way.

Startups do the same thing for their first few years. Some companies never drop this attitude. Tesla for example promises a ton of stuff like self driving, or just building proper cars where it doesn't rain inside [0], but they haven't delivered none of the two yet. Like it or not, people like this kid run the world. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0EgvaKrfIs

Should we all aspire to over promise and under deliver? The fact that many do and some succeed is not convincing.

Generally the advice I hear from more experienced people is to under promise and over deliver.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The write-once-run-everywhere promise -- Flutter is really good at multi-platform support because it works at the pixel level. So in a browser/web context, all you need (roughly) is a canvas, and to compile the relevant Dart to JS and you're off to the races.

If everything is just run as a canvas then you also loose everything that is good about a platform like accessibility, index-ability (at least on the web), integration with platform tools like copy, selecting text and so, so much more. I can see canvas rendering as a good target for games and for individual components such as a drawing surface or a chart but using it for a whole app is just throwing out the baby with…

Flutter on the web is more complicated than just a canvas element. The project has a fair amount of effort put into a11y on mobile; I’d be really surprised if the web output isn’t also accessible.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#117
post #26
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These guys used to be on the Fuchsia subreddit fairly frequently. They were definitely far from experienced or professional. IIRC, the founder is very young and was very much a beginner to OS development.

Usually hn is very positive towards young folks doing stuff, and doesn't measure it by the bar that older people get measured by. Why is this different this time? Also even then, you'll probably find people doing mistakes, committing hacks, etc all the time. It's like complaining that the initial Linux release doesn't support x86... Linus didn't write it for x86 originally.

Its the internet, i think its fair for people to criticize, likewise the author has no obligation to listen as well.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#118
post #45
post #40

It also seems to combine the worst of both platforms: Apps. Is there any OSDEV work that goes towards a more integrated, component-based architecture? As sad as it seems, Unix tools & pipes seems to be the most successful and enduring attempt in that direction. Systems doing that on a language basis seem mostly dead (Lisps, Smalltalks, Oberons), component architecture isn't doing much (OpenDoc as the prime example, C…

Component architecture is everywhere on the desktops, just not on those using UNIX text terminals. COM has been the underlying driving technology of Windows since Vista, where the Windows team took the Longhorn .NET ideas and redid them with COM, since then we got COM improved as WinRT/UWP. Which despite the common mix with the store (blame marketing teams), is what to this day most Windows 10 APIs make use of, and n…

> The tools are there, learn to use them Luke.

That's the, excuse my Huttese, friggin' point. We had versions of those tools for ages. And once we even had high hopes of using them outside of a dev's context -- the aforementioned OpenDoc for example, but even early Linux DE's seemed to have some intentions of going that route. I remember using the GNOME CORBA implementation because I needed something that would compile with a proprietary workstation C compiler (no C++).

And it's not even hard to see why we're not doing it -- money and bikeshedding. We're selling apps. Heck, we've gone a step beyond that and don't even do that anymore, we're selling services now. There are two environments where you could go beyond that -- made for hire enterprise software and open source (I've given up on academia, especially after the bachelor-splosion). But that's where the second part comes in play -- most enterprises have given up on trying to come up with some overarching architecture, things are moving too fast and there are too many managers.

Whereas there are too few in open source. Never mind that a lot of open source these days is just commercial turds, github profiling and heavily influenced by what you're doing in your day job.

Conway's Law is really screwing us over.

Yes, we have all the tools to e.g. create a desktop where you could have your favorite editor widget in all contexts, where interoperation isn't just dropping stuff into UTF-8 files, to be massaged by scripts and other applications.

I doubt that it will get better. There's a whole generation starting to fill the FAANG bullpens that never saw anything beyond the cordoned appscapes of their indistinguishable mobile devices. Maybe someone will notice that "hey, I'm using this insanely clever federated way of connecting my microservices with , what if...". Probably will end up on something like the suckless/unixpr*n pages and go a few steps too far, banging ASCII rocks together to summon the holy gopher.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#119
post #50
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's perfectly understandable, I even feel that I went a little too "slick marketing" with the website, but I have extremely high, maybe even too high goals for the project.

It's fine to have high (even unrealistic!) goals, but IMO you're doing your project a disservice by presenting it as if the future's already here. I think it's a really interesting project but it's not an honest presentation (not in an exceptional way, it seems to be an existing trend in startup culture so it's understandable that people replicate it).

The wording is definitely a little brash and market-y, but I don't think there is anything on the site that is explicitly false, but of course it probably comes across as represented to be more finished than it actually is, which is a fair understanding.

Re: DahliaOS operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS

#120
post #114
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are needed for the tasks C was made to handle: complete control over everything being a primary one. If you do not need those tasks you do not need C. And if you do then get used to it.

Odd how well rust seems to manage to avoid them. C was amazing when it was introduced, but is as archaic as COBOL today. We are stuck with it because of legacy.

>"C was amazing when it was introduced"

It was not amazing. It was decent particular tool for particular job. That was all about it. Same thing about Rust. There are no silver bullets laying around.

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