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Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

abcnews.go.com

111–120 of 435 posts

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right... how do I get a number from looking at those?

Compare those values to your own weight, and pay attention when you hear someone’s weight to see if it matches your heuristic.

> pay attention when you hear someone’s weight to see if it matches your heuristic

I don't think I've ever heard an adult male ever mention their own weight in public. You can see why it'd be hard to estimate when you don't have any data.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#113

Setting aside the fact that this kind of thing happens at all: How is ketamine the drug of choice?! Although it has a very high active dose:fatal dose (alluded to in other comments), accepted practice for "chemical restraint" is Thorazine+Valium (or equivalent); ketamine is basically never used for behavioral "sedation" by any medical professional.

I would guess the problem is those already intoxicated on opiates, or even alcohol, as many arrestees are. Adding a bento, like valium, to that mix is extremely dangerous because of the synergistic effect on respiratory depression.

Ketamine is also a CNS depressant and would have the same compounding effect when mixed with alcohol, it's a wholly inappropriate drug to administer to someone who was in a state of "alcohol-induced excited delirium"

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#114
post #3

Why are we injecting people during arrests, which by definition are not yet guilty people? Even if nobody had died, this is absurd.

If you are resisting arrest, you may still be presumed innocent of the original crime. However you're almost certainly guilty of resisting lawful arrest, which is usually a misdemeanor. There's no exemption that allows innocent people to resist lawful arrest. This is not to say that injection sounds like a great solution for everyday arrests.

Thankfully we don't use "almost certainly guilty" as the criminal standard in the US. So, you're still injecting an innocent person with drugs to detain them.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#115
post #83

Alcohol and ketamine is a known bad bad combination. 500mg is a damn lot of ketamine and morally there is no difference than drugging someone against their will by non medical people for no medical purpose.

If someone is waving a knife or gun about and is a danger to others, I would say there is a moral difference. I am assuming that the police use it mainly for cases like that, but that is just an assumption. It still seems better than shooting at them. The linked article doesn't say anything like that though, but it is quite low on details leading to the arrest.

A paramedic isn’t going anywhere near a person waving a gun or a knife to inject them. This is only for people who are already restrained.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#117
post #112

Sounds like the worst idea ever. Hope these practices will stay in the US only.

Also happens in Canada (https://communityedition.ca/paramedics-in-wr-will-soon-admin...), they administer it for pretty much the same reason as in the US. And Australia.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#118

> He got 500 milligrams because they thought he weighed 220 pounds, but he was only 140 pounds and should have received 315 milligrams. 315 milligrams is still.. a lot. Especially injected into the bloodstream (I presume?) all at one time. Enough to really wrangle your marbles even if you're used to that kind of stuff. edit: To expand, that's about the dosage most people would get delusions of some sort, but not be 1…

It is a lot by recreational standards, but the anesthetic doses of ketamine are higher than the recreational doses.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are resisting arrest, you may still be presumed innocent of the original crime. However you're almost certainly guilty of resisting lawful arrest, which is usually a misdemeanor. There's no exemption that allows innocent people to resist lawful arrest. This is not to say that injection sounds like a great solution for everyday arrests.

Of course, the definition of "lawful arrest" is pretty flexible these days and can seemingly include arrests that are blatantly unlawful, like some cops deciding to assault a random passerby on the street because they don't like the look of them or are unhappy about legal conduct like photography. Is it okay to resist under those circumstances? According to a judge or a police officer, probably not, but at the end of…

> According to a judge or a police officer, probably not

I'd naively hope that a judge wouldn't side with a police officer here, but I think the fact that resisting arrest is inherently criminal is a pretty big flaw in the US legal system.

I live in a jurisdiction [1] where resisting arrest is not criminalised in the same sense as the US, and the idea that a police officer could unlawfully arrest you and then immediately have lawful grounds if you resisted is very alien to me.

[1] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resisting_arrest#England_and_W...

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#120
post #3

Why are we injecting people during arrests, which by definition are not yet guilty people? Even if nobody had died, this is absurd.

I have no clue, the first time I read about ketamine was in a article [1] about upcoming partydrugs in The Netherlands. In that article they mention that ketamine is generally used as a anesthetic for horses. But having things done to your body while you cannot decide about that is just horrible and should be banned.

[1] https://www.parool.nl/nieuws/ketamine-steeds-populairder-gro... (Dutch)

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