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A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

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Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#111

Post by lotsofpulp »

natch wrote: post #86
lotsofpulp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people voting against environmental reforms are doing it because they don't want to reduce their quality of life. And since nothing comes close to the cost to energy density ratio of fossil fuels, there is no solution other than reducing energy usage and reducing quality of life. And so without convincing people they should reduce their quality of life for the benefit of future generations, nothing is going to ha…

>The people voting against environmental reforms are doing it because they don't want to reduce their quality of life. No. They're doing it because of tribalism and ignorance. They perceive that by allowing progress on energy sustainability issues, they allow the enemy tribe a victory. And many of them don't care at all about sustainability because they believe the second coming is just around the corner. The ones wh…

>The ones who think it would reduce their quality of life are just being ignorant. They don't understand the possibilities.

I'm not willing to give people that benefit of the doubt. Deep down, people are loss averse, and will tell themselves whatever about the second coming or make up conspiracies to do it. The real cause is people don't want to give up single family homes with garages and SUVs on quarter+ acre lots. People don't want to give up annual vacations to tropical destinations.

> The future is already here; it's just not evenly distributed.

It's not evenly distributed because the costs aren't felt evenly. Fossil fuels are portable, they start on demand in a variety of weather or time of day, and they have all the infrastructure already setup to use them. They're good at what they do. But until the environmental costs aren't incorporated into the financial costs of fossil fuels, I don't see what would motivate people to move away from them.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#113

Post by furi »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #80

Far too little, far too late. It may have helped fix climate if we had stopped deforestation in 1992 after the first UN climate summit, used only sustainable wood from that moment on and cleared no mature forest for pasture or palm oil. Oh, and started migrating to zero carbon economies when it would have taken a percent or two reduction a year, rather than the throw ourselves off a reduction cliff required now. Than…

I like the idea of biodiversity as much as the next person but the climate paradigm is we have to do something or we're all going to die. "Green" causes are not guaranteed to align with each other and when they come head to head I think we should favor the one that is about continuing to exist over the one that is fundamentally an aesthetic or philosophical concern, the fruits of which we will be unable to enjoy if we die out.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#114

Post by GVIrish »

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #95
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #80

Far too little, far too late. It may have helped fix climate if we had stopped deforestation in 1992 after the first UN climate summit, used only sustainable wood from that moment on and cleared no mature forest for pasture or palm oil. Oh, and started migrating to zero carbon economies when it would have taken a percent or two reduction a year, rather than the throw ourselves off a reduction cliff required now. Than…

So should we not try any ideas like this? Just give up and burn it all down, point fingers and say, "I told you it was too late. Look how right I am." I see no solutions offered in any of your written paragraphs and I welcome any and all alternatives.

We should absolutely reforest on a large scale, but we also need to drastically cut emissions, and pursue other carbon sequestration strategies (olivine weathering for example).

I'm not sure trying to convert desert into forest is even a good idea. Some of these deserts have been around a long, long time and harbor their own unique organisms. And as the article mentions it could cause unpredictable disruptions in weather patterns.

It seems pretty clear that right now there isn't any one silver bullet strategy that is going to avert climate disaster. We absolutely have to reduce emissions and increase carbon sequestration to get to net-zero, then we need to go further into net-sequestration of carbon.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#115

Post by pjc50 »

furi wrote: post #113
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #80

Far too little, far too late. It may have helped fix climate if we had stopped deforestation in 1992 after the first UN climate summit, used only sustainable wood from that moment on and cleared no mature forest for pasture or palm oil. Oh, and started migrating to zero carbon economies when it would have taken a percent or two reduction a year, rather than the throw ourselves off a reduction cliff required now. Than…

I like the idea of biodiversity as much as the next person but the climate paradigm is we have to do something or we're all going to die. "Green" causes are not guaranteed to align with each other and when they come head to head I think we should favor the one that is about continuing to exist over the one that is fundamentally an aesthetic or philosophical concern, the fruits of which we will be unable to enjoy if w…

"We" are not "all" going to die, but there are definitely going to be some very messy outcomes for large populations. (Bangladesh? India are already setting up to not take refugees from there) It's pretty much business as usual for the west to trigger death at a distance and then disclaim responsibility for the results.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#116

Post by dghughes »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #80

Far too little, far too late. It may have helped fix climate if we had stopped deforestation in 1992 after the first UN climate summit, used only sustainable wood from that moment on and cleared no mature forest for pasture or palm oil. Oh, and started migrating to zero carbon economies when it would have taken a percent or two reduction a year, rather than the throw ourselves off a reduction cliff required now. Than…

I'd assume growing trees would sequester far more carbon than mature trees? Grow, chop, grow perhaps?

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#117

Post by rsync »

chrisweekly wrote: post #72
ainiriand wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the main purpose would be to avoid tree death. And even natural death of trees can be allowed considering that an oak lives around 150 years. Regarding what you say about releasing the co2 they have stored, keep in mind that the tree is not a co2 sponge. It takes co2 and transforms a big chunk of it in other carbon-based components useful to the tree. I recommend this article that clears some ideas about trees…

FTR, many tree species can live for hundreds of thousands of years.

"FTR, many tree species can live for hundreds of thousands of years."

The oldest known tree in the world is 5000 years old.

No individual trees are known to live hundreds of thousands of years.

There are clonal trees, like aspens, that could live as a colony for hundreds of thousands of years, but that's not quite the same thing (and our oldest verified example is only 80k years old).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_trees

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#118

Post by LifeLiverTransp »

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #95
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #80

Far too little, far too late. It may have helped fix climate if we had stopped deforestation in 1992 after the first UN climate summit, used only sustainable wood from that moment on and cleared no mature forest for pasture or palm oil. Oh, and started migrating to zero carbon economies when it would have taken a percent or two reduction a year, rather than the throw ourselves off a reduction cliff required now. Than…

So should we not try any ideas like this? Just give up and burn it all down, point fingers and say, "I told you it was too late. Look how right I am." I see no solutions offered in any of your written paragraphs and I welcome any and all alternatives.

Nihilism is the minimal effort solution aka lazy-loading.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#119

Post by dang »

revscat wrote: post #44

Does that series cover eliminating Rupert Murdoch? I know that this is taboo to discuss, but it is becoming increasingly apparent that non-technical solutions to climate change will necessarily include the elimination of those who metaphorically are holding a gun to humanity's head.

You can't post like this on HN. Please don't do it again. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22064871 and marked it off-topic.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: we've had to ask you about this before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19252288

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#120

Post by koheripbal »

noiv wrote: post #61

> There is no one single clever solution to the climate problem. There is. Just stop emitting greenhouse gases.

We don't even need to STOP entirely. We can just reduce by ~50% of current levels.

Greenhouse gases could still be used for numerous applications, as long as we stop using it for power generation, ground transportation, and manufacturing.

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