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A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

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Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#91

Post by belorn »

Sweden have had for several decades a law that require reforestation when landowners harvest timber. Every year a lot of trees get planted, and depending on how you count you can either see it as a massive amount of carbon credits from the last 50 years or so, or as being carbon neutral as it is very likely that the wast majority of the timber end up being burned.

If we look at climate research we also see a similar concern. Reforestation only work as a carbon sink if it also accompanies agreements to not harvest the tress and keep the forest as reservations. In simple terms, global reforestation in order to combat climate change has the same challenge as a global initiatives to create more forest reservations.

A global reforestation policy without extending the reservations is carbon neutral. It is much better than deforestation, but it won't fix the problem of fossil fuels putting out massive amount of carbon into the air.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#92

Post by PaulHoule »

adamsea wrote: post #76
revscat wrote: post #44

Does that series cover eliminating Rupert Murdoch? I know that this is taboo to discuss, but it is becoming increasingly apparent that non-technical solutions to climate change will necessarily include the elimination of those who metaphorically are holding a gun to humanity's head.

While I sympathize with your sentiment a more accurate and less provocative way of saying almost the same thing would be to say that the biggest barriers to dealing with climate change are social and political, and so changing social norms (so corporate behavior as evidenced by Murdoch) becomes unacceptable, and electing politicians who will pass meaningful climate-change laws, is really important.

There are a few groups to consider here.

One is the ordinary corporate manager which is not especially ideological. This person might be part of the problem because CO2 emissions help the firm make money, but they'd have no deep problem with making money without CO2 emissions.

Another is Rupert Murdoch, the Koch Brothers, and other funders of the "new right" who actively campaign to make governments less responsive to issues such as climate change -- predominantly by spamming the agenda so that politicians never get far past "lowering taxes for the rich".

A third is the ordinary people, which makes the problem particularly difficult. In most countries the #1 way to have a riot is to raise the price of fuel. For instance, after Macron destroyed his credibility by cutting the wealth tax, he was unable to ask the "yellowjackets" to make any sacrifices. Now he can't manage pension "reform" for the same reason.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#93

Post by PaulHoule »

In developed countries changing land use policies in the developing world seems to be an easy way out.

Nobody asks people in the developing world what they think about it. I suspect many of them would feel the same way about being forced to change their land use the same way the yellowjackets feel about an increase in the price of fuel.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#94

Post by bergoid »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #80

Far too little, far too late. It may have helped fix climate if we had stopped deforestation in 1992 after the first UN climate summit, used only sustainable wood from that moment on and cleared no mature forest for pasture or palm oil. Oh, and started migrating to zero carbon economies when it would have taken a percent or two reduction a year, rather than the throw ourselves off a reduction cliff required now. Than…

> What will be the unintended consequences of foresting deserts

I think you are overly concerned but here you raise a good point: foresting a desert could lower the albedo of the Earth. If not offset by the CO2 uptake of the trees, this could have a net greenhouse effect on the climate.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#95

Post by UnpossibleJim »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #80

Far too little, far too late. It may have helped fix climate if we had stopped deforestation in 1992 after the first UN climate summit, used only sustainable wood from that moment on and cleared no mature forest for pasture or palm oil. Oh, and started migrating to zero carbon economies when it would have taken a percent or two reduction a year, rather than the throw ourselves off a reduction cliff required now. Than…

So should we not try any ideas like this? Just give up and burn it all down, point fingers and say, "I told you it was too late. Look how right I am." I see no solutions offered in any of your written paragraphs and I welcome any and all alternatives.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#96

Post by NeedMoreTea »

bergoid wrote: post #89
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #80

Far too little, far too late. It may have helped fix climate if we had stopped deforestation in 1992 after the first UN climate summit, used only sustainable wood from that moment on and cleared no mature forest for pasture or palm oil. Oh, and started migrating to zero carbon economies when it would have taken a percent or two reduction a year, rather than the throw ourselves off a reduction cliff required now. Than…

> Now had we created no-development zones around forests, to allow them to expand naturally, in a world not deforesting at ever increasing rate... I am no fan of rainforest destruction and the ensuing loss of biodiversity, but globally the world is not deforesting: https://phys.org/news/2018-08-global-forest-loss-years-offse...

Rather reinforces my point. Headline: "global forest loss over past 35 years has been more than offset by new forest growth"

Replacing the carbon storage of a single 100 metre mature rain forest meranti, and the diverse ecosystem below it by new growth requires how many square miles? It's a net loss for a century, perhaps more. Overall it's a colossal loss.

I note that article accounts for area covered only. No mention of the human activity, of the clear burning, size of trees, amount of other growth under the canopy etc.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#97

Post by pjkundert »

bergoid wrote: post #94
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #80

Far too little, far too late. It may have helped fix climate if we had stopped deforestation in 1992 after the first UN climate summit, used only sustainable wood from that moment on and cleared no mature forest for pasture or palm oil. Oh, and started migrating to zero carbon economies when it would have taken a percent or two reduction a year, rather than the throw ourselves off a reduction cliff required now. Than…

> What will be the unintended consequences of foresting deserts I think you are overly concerned but here you raise a good point: foresting a desert could lower the albedo of the Earth. If not offset by the CO2 uptake of the trees, this could have a net greenhouse effect on the climate.

If you’re really worried about albedo, perhaps start questions the impact of gigatons of soot flowing over the North Pole, blackening huge ice fields over the last few decades.

Such questions are not tolerated, so be warned.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#98

Post by bashmelek »

Trees are the best tool modern technology offers to sequester carbon. As it stands, the largest "crop" we have in america is grass. Lawns, though better than nothing, are a poor substitute in terms of taking in carbon. This and all of our empty parking lots, roads, and other car-enabling infrastructure contribute to urban sprawl that takes land from forests. It's an uphill battle, but changing various zoning laws is a good step

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#99

Post by NeedMoreTea »

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #95
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #80

Far too little, far too late. It may have helped fix climate if we had stopped deforestation in 1992 after the first UN climate summit, used only sustainable wood from that moment on and cleared no mature forest for pasture or palm oil. Oh, and started migrating to zero carbon economies when it would have taken a percent or two reduction a year, rather than the throw ourselves off a reduction cliff required now. Than…

So should we not try any ideas like this? Just give up and burn it all down, point fingers and say, "I told you it was too late. Look how right I am." I see no solutions offered in any of your written paragraphs and I welcome any and all alternatives.

When a house is on fire, worry about the new extension after the fire is out. Otherwise it's Jevons' paradox writ large. We're still destroying and emitting at ever faster rate. Effort should be going into circular sustainable economies, decarbonising, achieving carbon neutrality, assisting the developing world to carbon neutrality too.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#100

Post by bergoid »

revscat wrote: post #44

Does that series cover eliminating Rupert Murdoch? I know that this is taboo to discuss, but it is becoming increasingly apparent that non-technical solutions to climate change will necessarily include the elimination of those who metaphorically are holding a gun to humanity's head.

> it is becoming increasingly apparent that non-technical solutions to climate change will necessarily include the elimination of those who metaphorically are holding a gun to humanity's head.

I beg your pardon?

Who exactly is holding a gun to humanity's head?

Are you thinking of entire populations or do you have specific individuals in mind?

And what does your plan look like?

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