Live data from Hacker News

A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

medium.com

81–90 of 180 posts

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#82
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully support any plan that ends in the forest moon of Endor. What are even the odds we'd have fossil fuels left to burn in 1,500 years? I feel like we can safely say we'd have reached peak oil by then.

I don't know the source other than Elon Musk stated it in one of his presentations, but according to him we have five times as much fossil fuel reserves as we would need to utterly destroy ourselves with climate change. If that's right, waiting until we run out is not a solution. I realize the context was mentioning some speculation that we could push the timeline out some by planting trees. That speculation aside, w…

I didn't intend argue we should wait until we run empty on Fossil Fuels. I just can't see any way in which we'll still be consuming them in 1,500 years - either we'll have moved off them, we'll have run out, or the world will have become not compatible with life (non-exclusive "or" in this case).

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#83
post #70

The core assumption is that 3 billion out of a total of 4.7 billion acres of desert currently existing can be reforested by planting trees and irrigating them for 20 years, after which they will continue growing without irrigation. Is this possible, except for marginal areas bordering the deserts? Aren't most desert areas desert because of very low precipitation? This may be practical for areas such as the example in…

In the article the claim is that the environment changes due to the presence of the forest and results in more precipitation. i.e. the presence of precipitation and trees are linked. If you remove one you remove the other, and if you add one (trees in this case) you get the other. Pretty amazing if true.

>But for the past 2,000 years or so, the climate of the Sahara has been fairly stable. The northeastern winds dry out the air over the desert and drive hot winds toward the equator. These winds can reach exceptional speeds and cause severe dust storms that can drop local visibility to zero. Dust from the Sahara travels on trade winds all the way to the opposite side of the globe.

>Precipitation in the Sahara ranges from zero to about 3 inches of rain per year, with some locations not seeing rain for several years at a time. Occasionally, snow falls at higher elevations. Daytime summer temperatures are often over 100 degrees Fahrenheit (38 degrees Celsius) and can drop to near-freezing temperatures at nighttime.

https://www.livescience.com/23140-sahara-desert.html

Precipitation is controlled by the humidity in the prevailing wind systems. Prevailing winds from the northeast drop whatever moisture they have on the southern margins of the Mediterranean or on Egypt and Sudan.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#84

I'm burnt out or depressed with my current career (or something else), but at this moment I would happily pivot to spending the rest of my life trying to help nature. How could I create a business or venture that allowed people to make a livable wage while also working to create a balanced ecosystem between human and nature?

Honestly, tree farming is carbon negative. By continuously growing trees and turning them into lumber you capture carbon and turn it into houses and furniture. Using the profits to buy more land to reforest, then cycling though planting and cutting down trees on a cycle.

This is how Sierra Pacific Industries does it in California. All the clear cuts are reforested while the clear cuts are used to make timber for houses, etc. Most forests in America are managed. However the way it is done is pretty manual maybe drones and robots would make it more efficient.

(Wife is a forester)

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in shock to discover how empty and barren Ireland is. According to Wikipedia it is one of the most heavily deforested countries in Europe...

If you think that's bad: Ireland are still digging and burning peat to produce energy - Peat! in 2020! Horrifying

That's true, you can see the peat farms in Connemara, just by the roadside.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent as I read it isn't suggesting that having your cake and eating it too is possible, instead they're attempting to establish a dual-scale demarcation of viewpoints with one scale being "Prohibition or allowance of fossil fuels" and the other scale being "Fixes or does not fix climate change". This is useful because polling has discovered many US Republicans will actually vote for climate solutions _if_ they empl…

The people voting against environmental reforms are doing it because they don't want to reduce their quality of life. And since nothing comes close to the cost to energy density ratio of fossil fuels, there is no solution other than reducing energy usage and reducing quality of life. And so without convincing people they should reduce their quality of life for the benefit of future generations, nothing is going to ha…

>The people voting against environmental reforms are doing it because they don't want to reduce their quality of life.

No. They're doing it because of tribalism and ignorance. They perceive that by allowing progress on energy sustainability issues, they allow the enemy tribe a victory. And many of them don't care at all about sustainability because they believe the second coming is just around the corner.

The ones who think it would reduce their quality of life are just being ignorant. They don't understand the possibilities.

>And since nothing comes close to the cost to energy density ratio of fossil fuels...

Well, it's not that simple. You can't just look at the energy density without looking at the context. Even dry wood comes close (within an order of magnitude) to fossil fuels. And ethanol is even better. But there are issues with both of these. That's the thing. You need to also account for the issues. And fossil fuels themselves also have issues, namely, the topic at hand, climate change. If you want the highest energy density, you would go with an H-bomb or a high energy laser. But you need to harness the energy in a context so being realistic about it, fossil fuels need to go. Just as we can't power our civilization sustainably with fusion bombs, we also can't do so with fossil fuels.

The energy density of fossil fuel is around 40 Megajoules/liter, which is impressive (though not compared to an h-bomb at over 7,500,000 MJ/L), but when you put it in a car, the energy density of the whole system drops to 0.2 on the same scale. Not so great at all.

Where things get interesting is if you take batteries, which are an order of magnitude worse energy density on their own compared to fossil fuels on their own, and you make them into an integral structural component of the automobile system, as Tesla has done. So now if you look at the entire system, batteries become much more competitive in context. Your tank of gasoline is not serving any structural or stability enhancing role in your ICE car. But a battery is, thus bringing benefits which on an ICE car have to incur extra weight.

>there is no solution other than reducing energy usage and reducing quality of life

Not true. We squander so much freely available solar energy by allowing it to heat tar-covered rooftops which could instead be collecting it as solar power. There is plenty of energy for our use. There is no need to reduce quality of life. People are already living this. The future is already here; it's just not evenly distributed.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#87

Far too little, far too late. It may have helped fix climate if we had stopped deforestation in 1992 after the first UN climate summit, used only sustainable wood from that moment on and cleared no mature forest for pasture or palm oil. Oh, and started migrating to zero carbon economies when it would have taken a percent or two reduction a year, rather than the throw ourselves off a reduction cliff required now. Than…

> Thanks politicians!

Strange that you would indict the State for failing to legislate Industry, as though the latter had no agency and were therefore uniquely blameless.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#88
At least the article title is quite a bit misleading in my eyes. There is no single silver bullet solution to "fixing" climate change. However, reforestation can play a large role in combating climate change. The first and most important step should be to cut down burning fossil fuels as quickly as possible. The lowest hanging fruit there is stop using coal. It is the worst offender and the most easy to get rid of. Just burning gas instead cuts CO2 emissions by more than 30%. Not counting in that number is, that a lot of gas is burnt on oil producing sites instead of used and that gas plants can have much higher efficiencies, like using the heat also for heating houses. Gas plants can reach up to 90% efficiency this way, basically halving the CO2 emissions vs. coal. Also, flexible gas plants play nicer with renewables as solar and wind. And of course stop using oil e.g. for cars.

Having done that would cut down the CO2 emissions drastically, and then the reforestation becomes a more realistic target and would indeed a very practical means to get to net zero emissions. And even if it were only a small part, setting up desalination to green large parts of the desert would be a big net win. But before we use solar cells to produce water for growing trees, we should use the electricity produced to not burn fossil fuels in the first place.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#89

Far too little, far too late. It may have helped fix climate if we had stopped deforestation in 1992 after the first UN climate summit, used only sustainable wood from that moment on and cleared no mature forest for pasture or palm oil. Oh, and started migrating to zero carbon economies when it would have taken a percent or two reduction a year, rather than the throw ourselves off a reduction cliff required now. Than…

> Now had we created no-development zones around forests, to allow them to expand naturally, in a world not deforesting at ever increasing rate...

I am no fan of rainforest destruction and the ensuing loss of biodiversity, but globally the world is not deforesting:

https://phys.org/news/2018-08-global-forest-loss-years-offse...

Post reply on HN