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Abuses show Assange case was never about law

jonathan-cook.net

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Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#111

Post by dang »

jMyles wrote: post #5

> When Assange’s popular recognition fell, and Ecuador’s political incentives changed, the asylum was rescinded. An important side note: this is the why the state always attacks the personality and popularity of activists, and why it's important to defend personalities and people. For example, let me say that, having met Cody Wilson several times and spending several hours with him on a couple of occasions (and moder…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20061064 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#112

Post by cheeseomlit »

gamblor956 wrote: post #100
cheeseomlit wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's that? Leaking info about corruption in a political party doesn't make them Russian puppets just because you happen to be a member of that party.

No, but knowingly releasing documents that were partially or entirely forged by the Russian intelligence agencies does make one a Russian puppet. Which is exactly what Wikileaks did, openly, at Assange's direction...despite the misgivings of the rest of the staff that the releases were timed for political effect on the US campaign on not out of some desire for the truth.

This is the first I've heard that the DNC/Podesta emails were forged, do you have a source for that?

And personally, assuming the emails are legit, I would rather they release that info before the election when it actually matters instead of afterwards. If a candidate is engaging in collusion/corruption to rig the primary against a competitor (Sanders) and receiving debate questions prior to a debate that's something I'd want voters to know about.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#113

Post by quannah »

pjc50 wrote: post #20
jMyles wrote: post #5

> When Assange’s popular recognition fell, and Ecuador’s political incentives changed, the asylum was rescinded. An important side note: this is the why the state always attacks the personality and popularity of activists, and why it's important to defend personalities and people. For example, let me say that, having met Cody Wilson several times and spending several hours with him on a couple of occasions (and moder…

This guy? https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/01/texas-indicts-co... It's absolutely routine for basically anyone accused of sexual assault to find a whole bunch of men reporting that they seemed to be a standup guy. That doesn't mean they remain a standup guy when left alone around women.

He met the girl via a website that claimed to be age-verified. Turns out she lied about her age, and the site didn't actually (properly) verify her. He still should've verified her age himself, but it kinda changes the narrative.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#114

Post by gamblor956 »

Bartweiss wrote: post #58
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you knew how it would (eventually) end for him Deep Throat, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein did fine [1]. I’m not convinced that, had Wikileaks filtered their material like the ICIJ did with the Panama Papers [2], they would have been charged. Ignoring the collateral damage caused by Assange’s decision not to curate, like every journalist is trained to do, doesn’t make it immaterial. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/…

My first reaction to this is that the climate has changed since then. The use of the Espionage Act and nonjudicial targeting of reporters and leakers has been on the rise for a few decades; it's not just Assange but Thomas Drake, John Kiriakou, Joseph Wilson, and Barrett Brown. If James Bamford published the equivalent of Inside the Puzzle Palace today, I'd fully expect him to face prosecution. The softer reaction to…

All of your examples of journalists being harassed by the government relate to Nixon...who was on the verge of impeachment for his abuses of power...

Of the 4 examples you provided, only Wilson didn't violate any laws. Drake and Kiriakou were government intelligence officers and violated federal laws regarding the disclosure of classified information. For Kirakou, the problem was not that he blew the whistle--the problem was how. He could have blown the whistle in a manner that protected classified information, such as by reporting to the Congressional oversight committee, which is what Drake tried to do. Drake was shielded from prosecution because he attempted to follow proper procedure all the way to the extremes and only breached disclosure rules when he was rebuffed. Kirakou didn't even try, which is why he ended up serving time. Brown may have committed a number of hacking-related crimes while a member of Anonymous; his criminal charges related to that and not to his reporting. (Being a journalist only shields you for journalism-related activities. It's not a magic shield to protect you from any crime you commit.) Wilson was never charged with a violation of the Espionage Act, so I'm not sure why he's on your list....

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#115

Post by duxup »

paganel wrote: post #104
YUMad wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might not extradite for political crimes, but they straight up let CIA kidnap people from their soil. If Assange was returned to Sweden, he'd be let out on 'house arrest' and he'd just dissapear into the dark one night.

As long as there will be Russian subs sailing under the nose of the Swedish authorities in Swedish teritorial waters then I’m pretty sure every Swedish government will play by the rules dictated by the US. A country like Switzerland can afford to act a little bit more neutral because they are located in the middle of Europe, with no close enemy in sight, but when you share the same sea with the Russians things are di…

Edit, oops I misunderstood your post, now I get it.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#116

Post by gamblor956 »

cheeseomlit wrote: post #112
gamblor956 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but knowingly releasing documents that were partially or entirely forged by the Russian intelligence agencies does make one a Russian puppet. Which is exactly what Wikileaks did, openly, at Assange's direction...despite the misgivings of the rest of the staff that the releases were timed for political effect on the US campaign on not out of some desire for the truth.

This is the first I've heard that the DNC/Podesta emails were forged, do you have a source for that? And personally, assuming the emails are legit, I would rather they release that info before the election when it actually matters instead of afterwards. If a candidate is engaging in collusion/corruption to rig the primary against a competitor (Sanders) and receiving debate questions prior to a debate that's something…

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2017/05/26/russi...

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#117

Post by jMyles »

dang wrote: post #111
jMyles wrote: post #5

> When Assange’s popular recognition fell, and Ecuador’s political incentives changed, the asylum was rescinded. An important side note: this is the why the state always attacks the personality and popularity of activists, and why it's important to defend personalities and people. For example, let me say that, having met Cody Wilson several times and spending several hours with him on a couple of occasions (and moder…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20061064 and marked it off-topic.

Fair enough.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#118

Post by gamblor956 »

wbhart wrote: post #103
tssva wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange has not been charged with any violation which carries the possibility of the death sentence.

I think people are only claiming they potentially do. It is unlikely the DOJ would seek the death penalty for the particular violations, especially since he would not be extradited if they did. What happens after he sets foot on US soil though is unclear (as in, I don't know what the law says about adding charges after the extradition).

It doesn't matter what people claim that the charges may "potentially" carry the death penalty because that would violate reality. The death penalty would exceed the maximum authorized statutory punishment for the charges laid against Assange.

Moreover, while it would not violate both international law, various treaties, and the US Constitution protections on due process to charge Assange with crimes that could theoretically carry the death penalty after his extradition, any attempt to actually impose such a penalty were he found guilty of any such crime would violate all of the above, ensuring that he could not be executed for his crimes in America. At worst, he could face life in a maximum security facility.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#119

Post by cheeseomlit »

gamblor956 wrote: post #116
cheeseomlit wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the first I've heard that the DNC/Podesta emails were forged, do you have a source for that? And personally, assuming the emails are legit, I would rather they release that info before the election when it actually matters instead of afterwards. If a candidate is engaging in collusion/corruption to rig the primary against a competitor (Sanders) and receiving debate questions prior to a debate that's something…

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2017/05/26/russi...

This is in regards to emails leaked from a journalist David Satter by Fancy Bear, the article doesn't say those were published by Wikileaks and I couldn't confirm elsewhere that they were. The article does mention:

>The Clinton campaign warned about the files pilfered from Podesta and published on Wikileaks, though it never offered any proof.

While the Podesta emails are believed by US intelligence to have been hacked by Fancy Bear as well, the wikipedia page on the Podesta hack says this:

>Cybersecurity experts interviewed by PolitiFact believe the majority of emails are probably unaltered, while stating it is possible that the hackers inserted at least some doctored or fabricated emails. The article then attests that the Clinton campaign, however, has yet to produce any evidence that any specific emails in the latest leak were fraudulent.[4] A subsequent investigation by U.S. intelligence agencies also reported that the files obtained by WikiLeaks during the U.S. election contained no "evident forgeries".[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podesta_emails

In regards to the DNC server leaks, there is no convincing evidence the Russians were involved and I do not trust the conclusions of an analysis done by a third-party cyber security company contracted by the DNC (Crowdstrike)

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#120

Post by dariusj18 »

YUMad wrote: post #63

The guy ran and seeked asylum because he feared he will 'be made an example of' by USA. He sat in that tiny room for 6 years while US actors were working hard to smear him as a rapist and Russian puppet, while insinuating that everyone who claims USA is targeting Assange, or that there are indictments just waiting for his arrest is a conspiracy theorist. The moment he was removed from the embassy protection (again, a…

Seems to me, that staying in an Ecuadoran embassy for 6 years and seeing where he still ended up, already shows him having been made an example of.
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