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Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

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Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#111

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

zepto wrote: post #79
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad you agree. I think there are plenty of good suggestions for police reform, but I can see how things like body cameras can descend into messy micromanagement (what's a minimum uptime? What are the penalties? What about mistakes?). Make bad behavior a huge disincentive and police departments will largely sort themselves out. If they are empowered to make their own decisions as to how to do so, they will be more wi…

How will those big payouts happen without the evidence from body cams?

They already do. Bystander cameras, CCTVs, even witness reports have done a great deal to secure absurd amounts of taxpayer money for police brutality lawsuits.

I still think we should have body cameras, but the primary focus should be better policing, not camera compliance alone.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#112

Post by Ntrails »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #76
late2part wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can't be upvoted enough. You're right. The police are protected by their dependent partners, the prosecutors. Anyone who does this should at the very least be prosecuted for one of the following: 1. Interfering with a police officer 2. Obstruction of justice 3. Destruction of property Ask yourself why they aren't? Is it the police union? Is it a true explicit conspiracy? What world we we live in that people get…

> Ask yourself why they aren't? The prosecutors and the officers they're charging may be drinking buddies, or at least have collaborated professionally before. Prosecutors may also fear other officers being unhelpful in the future to the person who charged the latters' buddy. The prosecutor may also fear having to open every case that officer was involved in to retrial. The prosecutor, themselves, may have logged tho…

> In the end, the system will never work unless an independent prosecutor, with the power to investigate and bring charges, exists for police crimes.

Surely that's a trivial and obvious step? That's why an independent branch of cops was instituted to investigate other cops etc.

Like I don't mean to denigrate your point - I just mean "How hasn't this already been done?"

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#113

Post by gnaritas »

forgotpwtomain wrote: post #94
pjc50 wrote: post #8

Until police are jailed for this, nothing will improve. What's the US equivalent of the Independent Police Complaints Commission?

The curious thing is that police-forces are paid for by state and local taxes. Why is no one advocating cutting their funding until come into compliance with certain higher standards?

Because that's "being soft on crime" which will lose you an election here. The propaganda machine makes it very hard to oppose the police.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#114

Post by jessaustin »

logn wrote: post #64
elthran wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has this been proposed at all? Is there anything weird about american policing/law that would mean a national, federal agency wouldn't be able to take on this role?

It can be done. The DOJ does this on a case-by-case basis. And FBI has jurisdiction to investigate some of these things. Bernie Sanders has suggested requiring all police killings to be investigated. Most Constitutional rights extend to people against the states. So if your civil rights (due process, etc) have been violated, it's against federal law.

It's problematic to expect relief for any but the worst abuses from FBI or indeed from any part of DoJ. They're all cops, and they're not going to be eager to police other cops. A more effective organization would be completely separate, and probably staffed by attorneys who had never served as prosecutors.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#115

Post by alistairSH »

MCRed wrote: post #80
bbarn wrote: post #74

Let's see.. in the 20 odd years here in Chicago, the sum of my police interactions are: Hit by a white shirt (supervisor) who came out of an alley on clark st while in a bike lane - somehow my fault, detained. Hit on foot, by a car with no lights on in a residential neighborhood while crossing at a crosswalk - somehow my fault for being outside while there was "a suspect being hunted" Watching officers on foot in 7-1…

Unfortunately, where to move? The situation is like that all over the USA. The increasing militarization of the police in the past 20 years (one thing about being "old" is you can see these things happen before your eyes) have produced a very bad scene. I spent a couple years in Chile. They cops there walk around with machine guns (they're called "carabineros") but are professional, uncorrupt and trustworthy. The dif…

In my limited experience, the larger suburban areas are better (though far from perfect) with respect to police interaction than either cities or small towns (including rural areas).

Big cities tend to have similar problems as Chicago. Small towns and rural areas seem to ripe for petty abuses and also generating revenue via excessive traffic stops.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#116

Post by zeveb »

elthran wrote: post #16
bdisraeli wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no national body that oversees police, but Chicago has the Independent Police Review Authority. However IPRA rarely upholds complaints against police (it's staffed by ex-cops and other people connected to the police), and recently an investigator was fired after finding a shooting unjustified[1]. [1] http://www.wbez.org/news/city-fires-investigator-who-found-c...

Has this been proposed at all? Is there anything weird about american policing/law that would mean a national, federal agency wouldn't be able to take on this role?

It would be unconstitutional for the Congress to pass laws taking full oversight of state and local police (it's not one of the Congress's enumerated powers, and per the Tenth Amendment 'The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.').

Sometimes police are found to have violated federal civil-rights law, but that is a bit of a sketchy backdoor.

The Right Thing would be for each state to create such a commission, and for the Congress to create one for federal law-enforcement agencies.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#117

Post by rayiner »

callinyouin wrote: post #106
bbarn wrote: post #74

Let's see.. in the 20 odd years here in Chicago, the sum of my police interactions are: Hit by a white shirt (supervisor) who came out of an alley on clark st while in a bike lane - somehow my fault, detained. Hit on foot, by a car with no lights on in a residential neighborhood while crossing at a crosswalk - somehow my fault for being outside while there was "a suspect being hunted" Watching officers on foot in 7-1…

I'm moving to Chicago in a few months. Are there certain neighborhoods that should be avoided on the basis of corrupt police activity? I wonder because I could see neighborhoods that are relatively safe in terms of civilian crime, but cops posted in that area might have nothing better to do than mess with its inhabitants.

I lived in Streeterville for more than three years, and I'm not sure if I ever saw a cop. Maybe at the food court the mall.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#118

Post by alistairSH »

DannyBee wrote: post #108

" “How they determine that it’s purposely caused damages, I’d like to know,” Angelo said last month. “How they can figure out what is mechanical or what is human error, I’d like to know.”" Yeah, i mean how could you possibly tell whether it was human error for things like "wires cut with diagonal cutters". If the officers are so worried, they could do something fairly simple. They could take a cell phone video of wha…

To be fair, Angelo's job (head of the local union) is to protect and advocate for the officers. Yes, he sounds completely ridiculous, but he can't come out and say "yup, they broke the dashcams."

(In no way do I mean to imply he is correct, or that the system isn't completely broken.)

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#119

Post by rayiner »

alistairSH wrote: post #115
MCRed wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, where to move? The situation is like that all over the USA. The increasing militarization of the police in the past 20 years (one thing about being "old" is you can see these things happen before your eyes) have produced a very bad scene. I spent a couple years in Chile. They cops there walk around with machine guns (they're called "carabineros") but are professional, uncorrupt and trustworthy. The dif…

In my limited experience, the larger suburban areas are better (though far from perfect) with respect to police interaction than either cities or small towns (including rural areas). Big cities tend to have similar problems as Chicago. Small towns and rural areas seem to ripe for petty abuses and also generating revenue via excessive traffic stops.

I grew up in the VA suburbs, and the police were terrible. Not systematic corruption like in Chicago or New York, but petty traffic stops and an awful attitude.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#120

Post by RhodesianHunter »

MCRed wrote: post #80
bbarn wrote: post #74

Let's see.. in the 20 odd years here in Chicago, the sum of my police interactions are: Hit by a white shirt (supervisor) who came out of an alley on clark st while in a bike lane - somehow my fault, detained. Hit on foot, by a car with no lights on in a residential neighborhood while crossing at a crosswalk - somehow my fault for being outside while there was "a suspect being hunted" Watching officers on foot in 7-1…

Unfortunately, where to move? The situation is like that all over the USA. The increasing militarization of the police in the past 20 years (one thing about being "old" is you can see these things happen before your eyes) have produced a very bad scene. I spent a couple years in Chile. They cops there walk around with machine guns (they're called "carabineros") but are professional, uncorrupt and trustworthy. The dif…

I've had nothing but overly positive experiences with police in Austin.

The difference after moving from the North East is glaring.

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