Retina Macbook 2015 Teardown • Hacker News Board

Re: Retina Macbook 2015 Teardown

#101

Post by on_and_off » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 4:10 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #73

revelation wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if your understanding of "leading companies in ewaste" is that their products tick a bunch of boxes for materials used to be easily recyclable. But that is not the essence of the term. To avoid ewaste, you should avoid creating any in the first place. Creating products that will be useful for 10+ years instead of until the next model cycle .

> Creating products that will be useful for 10+ years instead of until the next model cycle. I've had my current Apple laptop for three years, and see no need to replace it any time soon. The Apple laptop I had before that lasted me five years, and a relative is still using it (so, eight years). The HP laptop I had before that lasted about a year and a half before literally beginning to fall apart. If anything, I wou…

I still heavily use my high end MBP early 2011. I switched to an SSD and 16 go of ram when it became unuseable last year, adding 1 or 2 years of use. I don't see how I could do something similar with Apple's curent product line.

Re: Retina Macbook 2015 Teardown

#102

Post by Udo_Schmitz » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 4:19 PM UTC

dingaling wrote: post #35

yitchelle wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to highlight Apple's recycling program as stated here [1]. They will give you a gift card for Apple computer. If your equipment are not Apple, they will still pick it up for free via Sims Recycling Solutions. [2] [1] - https://www.apple.com/recycling/ [2] - http://oem.srsapp.com/applepoweredbysims/

That doesn't really address recycling, though. They've over-loaded the word to mean trade-in. Technically nothing on that page days they don't just throw all the returned iPods into a lake. Well of course they don't, but neither do we know what they actually do.

> neither do we know what they actually do

Actually, if you click through on the GPs link Apple provides information in two links with further links to PDFs and FAQs.

https://www.apple.com/recycling/gift-card/

Re: Retina Macbook 2015 Teardown

#103

Post by serve_yay » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 4:33 PM UTC

keeran wrote: post #38

I'm not sure why this is an issue any more. It was a nice ideal when laptops were just PCs put into smaller boxes, but as manufacturers put the effort and investment into satisfying our demands for smaller, faster, lighter, I don't think the expectation of poking around inside them is reasonable. We don't see people complaining about the repairability of their R-Pis, Chromecasts, SoC systems etc. That's the way hardw…

I agree, phones have taken the same course too. Replaceable battery used to be a line-item in the feature list, but seems like nobody cares about it anymore. When people need more power they just get one of those battery cases.

This thing is underpowered and overpriced, right now, just as the Macbook Air was when it launched. And it's being ridiculed to some extent for those reasons, just as the Macbook Air was when it launched. I think it will be pretty nice in another couple cycles.

Re: Retina Macbook 2015 Teardown

#104

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 4:49 PM UTC

collyw wrote: post #20

chucknelson wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this more e-waste than a typical laptop? Aren't Apple laptops known for being highly recyclable and using less harmful materials overall? If you're saying more easily repairable laptops would stick around longer, I'm not sure that's how most consumers treat computers that break on them, especially laptops. Many times it would be "I need a new computer". I would think all of the produced-as-cheaply-as-possible…

Apple were the first mainstream manufacturer to introduce laptops without a replaceable battery as far as I can remember.

The batteries are replaceable, but it's not easy (or valid in warranty) for a user to do it. Apple can replace them, however.

Re: Retina Macbook 2015 Teardown

#105

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 4:55 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #50

userbinator wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the optimist says that to save space Apple had to glue and solder so much, the pessimist says it's so that Apple can charge more for repairs/replacements I think it's a combination of optimising for space and cost - every connector that needs to be aligned and connected, and every screw that needs to be installed, requires time and labour. It's far cheaper and faster to glue and solder everything together. This is kn…

> I think it's a combination of optimising for space and cost - every connector that needs to be aligned and connected, and every screw that needs to be installed, requires time and labour. And yet the keyboard alone uses both glue and about 90 screws ( https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/YYpaGaNumhQuR5M6 )

Presumably glue is unworkable for some of it. Or it needs to be reparable.

Re: Retina Macbook 2015 Teardown

#106

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 4:57 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #74

cowsandmilk wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all mobile chargers in the EU have to be of the same standard to reduce electronic waste. And yet this is the first criticism of the macbook 2015 by iFixit. In their opinion, moving to USB-C is creating waste since you cannot reuse your magsafe adaptor with this new macbook. Then they state moving to USB-C will cause more accidental damage than using magsafe, thus creating more waste.

I wonder is the new Macbook actually heavy enough for magsafe to work properly. Certainly, with the Air, it's pretty marginal; if the surface isn't very grippy you can pull the laptop with the cable without the magsafe disengaging.

And with the new MacBook so light, robust and lacking in solid-state components, I wonder if it matters. You can trip over cables, unfortunately, but you probably won't hurt your laptop too badly if it falls off the table (though I wonder if the screen might smash).

Re: Retina Macbook 2015 Teardown

#107

Post by Lawtonfogle » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 5:09 PM UTC

revelation wrote: post #54

ghshephard wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that Apple is one of the leading companies when it comes to eWaste. Also, this is the one of the rare Apple product that that only has industry standard ports/power chargers on it. You can't critique them on building a product that is hard to repair (and wow, this one looks next to impossible for your average non-technician) - but the ewaste/standard charger concerns don't appear to be valid.

Only if your understanding of "leading companies in ewaste" is that their products tick a bunch of boxes for materials used to be easily recyclable. But that is not the essence of the term. To avoid ewaste, you should avoid creating any in the first place. Creating products that will be useful for 10+ years instead of until the next model cycle .

Make it so I can put a scaled down/specialized version of Linux on it once it is otherwise outdated and I can still get more life from it.

Re: Retina Macbook 2015 Teardown

#108

Post by erkkie » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 5:27 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #100

xienze wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Creating products that will be useful for 10+ years Well that's just a matter of opinion, isn't it? Nothing's going to stop you from running this laptop 10 years from now just like nothing's going to stop you from running a PC laptop 10 years from now. The question is _are you going to want to_ continue using a 10 year old laptop? That's an eternity in technological terms. Sure you can upgrade a PC laptop to squeez…

The question is _are you going to want to_ continue using a 10 year old laptop? That's an eternity in technological terms. That might have been true 10 years ago, when typical speeds and storage capacities were increasing dramatically from one generation to the next and those increases were actually useful. But even entry-level PCs have been able to run typical home or office applications -- things like reading e-mai…

Integration and miniaturization is a standard evolutionary path for products to take, trying to fight that is pointless.

The companies involved have researched the market and the needs of the market and come out with what we have now, trying to argue the end result is wrong would need data to show otherwise.

From an engineering stand point, integrated/monolithic hardware fails less, there's a whole class of failure scenarios removed (ie connectors and interconnects, better sealing, etc).

Hardware has reached the point where it's on the same level with every-day things people throw away and buy new versions of without even thinking, like kettles or toasters, it's fine to argue that's wasteful but that doesn't stop most of the world from doing so for practical reasons.

Re: Retina Macbook 2015 Teardown

#109

Post by rndn » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 5:33 PM UTC

Artemis2 wrote: post #93

ghshephard wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be interesting to have the Industry Leaders, such as Apple, and Samsung, come out and explain what their thinking is regarding abandoning modular construction. Even Samsung, with the Galaxy 6, no longer includes a replaceable battery. My guess, is that in order to increase reliability, and reduce cost, companies have come to the realization that it's most straightforward to do that by abandoning multiple "pl…

Apple has already explained this: removing moving parts has allowed them to reduce a lot the space needed for the battery. Machining their hardware from a solid block of aluminium makes it also a lot sturdier. Here is a video featuring Jony Ive about the unibody design: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJx6cF-H__I Specific explanation regarding the unremovable battery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD6sh9purb0 Origi…

This article from 2012 sheds some light on the issues/tradeoffs related to glued batteries: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/07/recyclers-disagree-on-i...

Re: Retina Macbook 2015 Teardown

#110

Post by Silhouette » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 6:30 PM UTC

erkkie wrote: post #108

Silhouette wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is _are you going to want to_ continue using a 10 year old laptop? That's an eternity in technological terms. That might have been true 10 years ago, when typical speeds and storage capacities were increasing dramatically from one generation to the next and those increases were actually useful. But even entry-level PCs have been able to run typical home or office applications -- things like reading e-mai…

Integration and miniaturization is a standard evolutionary path for products to take, trying to fight that is pointless. The companies involved have researched the market and the needs of the market and come out with what we have now, trying to argue the end result is wrong would need data to show otherwise. From an engineering stand point, integrated/monolithic hardware fails less, there's a whole class of failure s…

The companies involved have researched the market and the needs of the market and come out with what we have now, trying to argue the end result is wrong would need data to show otherwise.

No, technology companies are researching how to make more money. That frequently means making changes that are not in consumers' interests, in particular when it comes to either closed ecosystems and lock-in or when it comes to built-in obsolescence.

See also: "Smart" TVs, the history of pricing in the printer industry, Anything-as-a-Service, multi-year contracts in the mobile phone industry that obscure the true cost of these devices, DRM, and countless other trends in technology.

From an engineering stand point, integrated/monolithic hardware fails less

In some cases, yes. But when it does fail, you lose the entire device. It is far from clear that any benefit in reliability is a net win relative to any loss from making all failures catastrophic when they do happen.

Hardware has reached the point where it's on the same level with every-day things people throw away and buy new versions of without even thinking, like kettles or toasters

Not even close. That's just what people who make a lot of money selling new devices that don't actually offer much benefit over "old" devices want to convince everyone to believe with their marketing.

The current wasteful attitude is not sustainable, either economically or environmentally. We've only had this "two years and you throw away your $500 iThing and get a new one" kind of mentality quite recently, and most people have been through these kinds of change no more than once or perhaps twice so far.

Just like no-one doing corporate IT assumes you'll throw away a PC every three years any more, the market will learn, and probably very quickly. I already know plenty of people who have had exactly one generation of Apple gear and then become frustrated with the short lifecycle. I know almost no-one going the other way. That's just anecdotal of course, but looking at market share trends and general commentary over time, it looks like the experience and sentiment within my network is not unusual.