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India’s Downward Spiral

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Re: India’s Downward Spiral

#101

Post by maxerickson »

tormeh wrote: post #95
keenerd wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are nowhere near US or China in mass surveillance. Just because no one else in here (or even the original article) has mentioned it: cell phone encryption is illegal in India. All GSM is done in the clear. Think about that for a second. It means any citizen with a few hundred dollars worth of hardware can rival the best abilities of the NSA.

Are you sure? I thought GSM was encrypted by definition. I know it's been used as a NATO backup communications channel. Once the signal hits the base station, though, it's usually sent unencrypted down the wire.

The tower can (unilaterally, probably without any notification on the handset) select "A5/0" as the encryption algorithm. That's no encryption.

Re: India’s Downward Spiral

#102

Post by enlightenedfool »

virtuabhi wrote: post #18
manish_gill wrote: post #7

Worse yet, Indian government is apparently trying hard to emulate NSA's Surveillance Programs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A91idibgT0&feature=youtu.be Here's the video's info: """India is currently implementing some of the scariest surveillance schemes in the world. This lecture will shed light on India's surveillance industry, its UID scheme which aims at the collection of all biometric data and on various cont…

This is the first time I have seen UID scheme being mentioned as a surveillance tool. The aim of the scheme is to replace the outdated mechanisms - signature, name and address papers which can easily be forged. Why poor people are encouraged to register under the UID scheme? So that the benefits provided by India's socialist governments (central and state) can reach them without any corruption or delay. The fear of i…

Yeah...no way India can invest billions of dollars storing and processing peta bytes of data like NSA does. Its just too poor to do that.

Re: India’s Downward Spiral

#103

Post by tormeh »

maxerickson wrote: post #101
tormeh wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? I thought GSM was encrypted by definition. I know it's been used as a NATO backup communications channel. Once the signal hits the base station, though, it's usually sent unencrypted down the wire.

The tower can (unilaterally, probably without any notification on the handset) select "A5/0" as the encryption algorithm. That's no encryption.

Oh, ok, news to me, but it sounds plausible.

.... But, uh, why would the government require that, when they can just listen to the signal after it's been unencrypted at the base station?

Re: India’s Downward Spiral

#104

Post by dharmach »

- Government's support to freedom of expression depends considerably on availability of resources. If enough resources are unavailable, government has to give priority to law and order instead of freedom of speech.

- Surveillance is bad but depending on country's internal and external security situation, it may be a necessary evil.

- Removing content offensive to politicians is unacceptable.

Re: India’s Downward Spiral

#105

Post by enlightenedfool »

_nedR wrote: post #51
higherpurpose wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely there are better ways to identify someone than get their fingerprint, especally if they bothererd to called everyone to the police headquarters to get their fingerprint.

Its not just fingerprint (all 10 finger impressions actually) but also retinal scans. And the govt. is gradually making it mandatory for everything from getting 50% subsidies on cooking gas to opening a bank account. It is probably the most ambitious and encompassing citizen database in the world. And there is practically zero debate on the issues: 1. Is the govt. capable and competent enough to keep the data safe fr…

Good points. It's not unreasonable to assume the problems you mentioned are reality. It would take a couple of generations for people to even start to notice the harm that has been done

Re: India’s Downward Spiral

#106

Post by ihsw »

enlightenedfool wrote: post #102
virtuabhi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the first time I have seen UID scheme being mentioned as a surveillance tool. The aim of the scheme is to replace the outdated mechanisms - signature, name and address papers which can easily be forged. Why poor people are encouraged to register under the UID scheme? So that the benefits provided by India's socialist governments (central and state) can reach them without any corruption or delay. The fear of i…

Yeah...no way India can invest billions of dollars storing and processing peta bytes of data like NSA does. Its just too poor to do that.

You don't just buy the hardware, you have to maintain a staff of individuals with the related expertise. This is difficult to achieve on a scale that the US Government does with the NSA et al.

Right now a lot of ex-intelligence employees are whoring themselves out to state governments and international businesses, offering their products and consulting services. There's a lot of money to be made, especially since a lot of the expertise is held quite tightly by the incumbents.

Re: India’s Downward Spiral

#107

Post by pessimizer »

monsterix wrote: post #23
virtuabhi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the first time I have seen UID scheme being mentioned as a surveillance tool. The aim of the scheme is to replace the outdated mechanisms - signature, name and address papers which can easily be forged. Why poor people are encouraged to register under the UID scheme? So that the benefits provided by India's socialist governments (central and state) can reach them without any corruption or delay. The fear of i…

> The fear of it being misused is currently unjustified and without any proof. http://www.rediff.com/news/report/uidai-gets-first-complaint... http://kractivist.wordpress.com/2013/01/24/india-your-aadhaa... http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/aadhar-scheme-how-safe-an... I know at least 22 cases that have been suppressed so far. You can safely assume the number to be much higher, misunderstood and often under-reported…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propiska_in_the_Soviet_Union

Re: India’s Downward Spiral

#108

Post by TheLoneWolfling »

tormeh wrote: post #103
maxerickson wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tower can (unilaterally, probably without any notification on the handset) select "A5/0" as the encryption algorithm. That's no encryption.

Oh, ok, news to me, but it sounds plausible. .... But, uh, why would the government require that, when they can just listen to the signal after it's been unencrypted at the base station?

So that not even the people at the cell phone base station know just how absurdly much data they are pulling in.

Re: India’s Downward Spiral

#109

Post by general_failure »

virtuabhi wrote: post #18
manish_gill wrote: post #7

Worse yet, Indian government is apparently trying hard to emulate NSA's Surveillance Programs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A91idibgT0&feature=youtu.be Here's the video's info: """India is currently implementing some of the scariest surveillance schemes in the world. This lecture will shed light on India's surveillance industry, its UID scheme which aims at the collection of all biometric data and on various cont…

This is the first time I have seen UID scheme being mentioned as a surveillance tool. The aim of the scheme is to replace the outdated mechanisms - signature, name and address papers which can easily be forged. Why poor people are encouraged to register under the UID scheme? So that the benefits provided by India's socialist governments (central and state) can reach them without any corruption or delay. The fear of i…

You grossly underestimated India based on the politicians. Dude they just sent a rocket to mars.

Re: India’s Downward Spiral

#110

Post by general_failure »

cubancigar11 wrote: post #86
infinity0 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we understand it. It doesn't mean it's a good thing to do, or that we agree with it and won't criticise it. Also, I am from the East though I grew up in the West, and the attempt to deflect criticism just on the basis of "it's a different society" is disgusting, a hindrance to progress, and frankly quite racist. There is an ongoing campaign in India against the practice of dowry, I guess you also want to argue "W…

I was with you until you started talking about dowry, proving once and for all (literally, for everyone who reads your comment) that you have no clue about India. There is hardly any problem related to dowry. Come, have a look. 'Dowry' exists in media which consists of third grade students turned women-right activists. For mathematically minded people, I will just quote recent supreme court judgment about the reality…

Step outside your well. The issues you talk about are very much there in every arranged marriage (which is almost 100% of all marriages in India), they just exist differently.
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