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Why I Left the .NET Framework

blog.jonathanoliver.com

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Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#101

Post by dkuntz2 »

MichaelGG wrote: post #69
yaur wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JSON vs. XML is largely irrelevant IMO. What is needed is something with as little extra crap as possible so that it is possible for a developer and/or diff tool figure out what is going on with the file.

The only real relevant part is that this means no comments. So if you DO decide to do something neat in your build files, you can't note anything about it. Or easily remove pieces for testing. But it's JSON which is so hip instead of XML which is so bloated. /s

You could use YAML, which is also kinda hip, but still allows comments...

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#102

Post by platz »

jonathanoliver wrote: post #91
platz wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I was particularly amused by OP's statement here.

As the original poster, I have found that relational databases have become our favorite hammer. The point of my post however is that things like the modern NoSQL movement did not originate in Redmond. Open source drove NoSQL to the forefront. If it were up to Oracle and Microsoft, we'd be using RDBMS forever.

point about origination granted, though for some folks NoSql has become a bit of a hammer itself http://use-the-index-luke.com/blog/2013-04/whats-left-of-nos... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6712703 . Of course, all hammers are bad, SQL or NoSQL - use the right tool for the job.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#103

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

sebcat wrote: post #60
com2kid wrote: post #4

Some really good criticisms, but I do wonder how long ago this developer left .NET. .NET is now heavily async based. WPF may have started it years ago, but async has been a keyword in the language for quite awhile! (I haven't used a proper lock in ages. Event queues are where it is at! Or pick your favorite paradigm, heck the framework comes with thread pools built in that it'll juggle for you!) In regards to .csproj…

I'm from a Linux/FreeBSD background. I'm currently doing work on a Windows platform. > Oh and VS support for git has been around for awhile. :) TFS also has really good git support, it has been improving with every version and it is now at a really good place. Git in visual studio does not work well. I'm using the built-in stuff in VS2013. If you want to do anything except the standard stuff (add, commit, pull, push…

> Git in visual studio does not work well. I'm using the built-in stuff in VS2013. ... I find myself resorting to msysgit a lot

You can use the git cli if you like, you can use TortoiseGit or GitExtensions. They all interoperate really well. That's the strong point of a popular open-source system. I never saw the reason why the source control system has to be integrated into the IDE before it's usable. They all operate on files and file systems, not on compilers. Why is it hard to do the commit in a different window to the coding?

> want to make an HTTP request? Have it done in a worker thread, because your HTTP library is blocking.

I'm having great results with .Net 4.5 and "var response = await httpClient.GetAsync(url)" The HttpClient and async/await came out in August last year. Is that kind of code what you mean when you say "Have it done in a worker thread, because your HTTP library is blocking" or are you using a prior version?

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#104

Post by taternuts »

com2kid wrote: post #4

Some really good criticisms, but I do wonder how long ago this developer left .NET. .NET is now heavily async based. WPF may have started it years ago, but async has been a keyword in the language for quite awhile! (I haven't used a proper lock in ages. Event queues are where it is at! Or pick your favorite paradigm, heck the framework comes with thread pools built in that it'll juggle for you!) In regards to .csproj…

> As for Visual Studio, I run it just fine on my Ultrabook! Huge project, it works well. Not perfect, but good enough. VS2013 fixed some very blatent threading bugs that VS2012 had in its UI (oops!) and things are generally snappier now.

VS and VS+ReSharper are two different beasts. ReSharper can bring a VS instance to a crawl even on a powerful machine if you don't tweak it for better performance.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#105

Post by DenisM »

jonathanoliver wrote: post #88
DenisM wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. c# is a great language - LINQ and type inference make it as succint as python (or even more when I use extensions methods and generics!), static type system gives a lot of safety eliminating huge classes of bugs, decent performance compared to other succint languages like Python or ruby. Really hits the spot for me, and I would hate to go to a dynamically typed language now. 2. VS is a great IDE if you give it eno…

On AWS booting Windows can easily take 10-15 minutes. On the same type of EC2 instance, it takes 30 seconds. This makes auto scaling quickly very difficult because you have to scale up in anticipation of demand rather than as it occurs. One other problem is that Windows by itself easily takes 1+ GB of RAM whereas Linux can easily run 64MB-128MB. So while Windows may only be 20% more expensive for similar hardware (wh…

The boot time is annoyance, and resource hogging is unfortunate, but I can easily buy my way out of those problems by buying bigger machines and doing it in advance. My time is more valuable, I think, and server costs are negligible next to payroll. There are business models where hardware costs dominate like, I don't know, video processing or something, but most startups are not in that boat - they need to iterate on UX as fast as possible.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#106

Post by reitanqild »

yardie wrote: post #29
reitanqild wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long time user of both nix and Windows here: At least around here it seems anyone can be a Windows dev/admin while becoming a *nix admin often takes some dedication. And to this day the amount of busywork that Windows admins and devs find acceptable still amuses me and not in a good way.

Are you sure about that? Is it that since Windows compromises 90% of desktop its reasonable to assume that a lot of people have put in 1000s of hours of using, developing, and administering it. As a counterexample. My Linux servers, when presented with 4 NICs and multiple VLANs, doesn't know what to do with them. I had to edit the iptable. Something that I still haven't needed to do to any of our Windows server. Diff…

Late reply, but yes I am reasonably sure.

A big part of one of my previous jobs was setting up Windows and Linux servers and linux workstations. The severs invariably had 4 nics.

I never, ever had to adjust iptables on any if them. Setting them up is mostly a breeze except for application specific stuff ($$$ stuff, not open source).

I don't know what distro and hardware you used though.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#107

Post by MichaelGG »

sebcat wrote: post #96
MichaelGG wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you know less about the build system than you think. SLN is NOT XML, it's some strange line-based format, that essentially lists projects. From there the whateverproj files are XML and valid MSBuild files. Git works fine in VS. Use Git Extensions.

> Git works fine in VS. Use Git Extensions. I don't know, but I think Git Extensions is superseded by the built-in Git support in VS2013. And it's very limiting if you want to do anything except the basic add, commit, pull, push stuff.

Superseded? How so? It's a third party plugin, just keep using it. The VS native stuff from MS is very immature but "ok" for simple TFS-like workflows.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#108

Post by chrislomax »

_random_ wrote: post #53
chrislomax wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I know this is something I can do right now but a few things I wanted to look at was node.js and Angular. I'm definitely in need of catching up on some new techniques, I've been so engrossed in doing paid work that I've not had time to pick up a book and get back to the fun bit of programming

That would be a good experience! You probably know this, but just a couple of generic facts up front: Node.js is basically a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactor_pattern implementation with some package management on top (similar to NuGet) plus a bit of healthy hype (solves all problems!). Microsoft is going to add this option as well it seems: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/webdev/archive/2014/02/18/introducin... Angular i…

I didn't know any of that so I appreciate the comment.

I think my next "fun" app will be a real time app using as many of the "new" technologies as possible.

I've been stagnant far too long now and it's beginning to show

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#109

Post by 650REDHAIR »

chrislomax wrote: post #108
_random_ wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a good experience! You probably know this, but just a couple of generic facts up front: Node.js is basically a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactor_pattern implementation with some package management on top (similar to NuGet) plus a bit of healthy hype (solves all problems!). Microsoft is going to add this option as well it seems: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/webdev/archive/2014/02/18/introducin... Angular i…

I didn't know any of that so I appreciate the comment. I think my next "fun" app will be a real time app using as many of the "new" technologies as possible. I've been stagnant far too long now and it's beginning to show

Post an update when you build the next app! We love real time and are interested in seeing new approaches.
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