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Why I Left the .NET Framework

blog.jonathanoliver.com

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Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#11

Post by chrislomax »

While I agree with some of these points the biggest one for me is client adoption.

All clients assume everything is run in Linux. I don't even know why this mindset is so popular.

When we develop something and the client wants to host it I can guarantee (more or less) that the platform is Linux and they want to know why the software we have written doesn't work on Linux.

I know there is Mono but I always use IIS to run our software as that's what I am used to and that is the platform is is meant to work on.

I do love .NET, I've used it since it was launched. I do want to have a change though. I just don't know what language to dip into next.

I'll never leave .NET though as it's where I really started programming (after VBA...). I've just discovered Umbraco too which I've just fallen in love with.

Recommendations on languages I can try would be appreciated. I don't like this minefield we are in at the minute, I never know what is going to stick around and what is a fad.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#12

Post by _random_ »

chrislomax wrote: post #11

While I agree with some of these points the biggest one for me is client adoption. All clients assume everything is run in Linux. I don't even know why this mindset is so popular. When we develop something and the client wants to host it I can guarantee (more or less) that the platform is Linux and they want to know why the software we have written doesn't work on Linux. I know there is Mono but I always use IIS to r…

You can try Clojure - it is both CLR and JVM. Lisps seem to never die completely :). Definitely not mainstream though.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#13

Post by duncanawoods »

icantthinkofone wrote: post #7

When I first got started in web development, my brother-in-law managed a large Microsoft shop and got me started with all the software I needed to get going for a huge project I managed to wrangle using .NET when it was at version 1.5(?). We worked on that for something like six months until, one day, all of a sudden everything was version 2.0(?) and it all fell apart! We quickly called my brother-in-law in and he co…

I migrated a number of large services and desktop apps from .Net 1 to 2 and it required unremarkable effort. Some API differences that were well documented. The notion it required you to throw away all your code and change OS is simply absurd.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#14

Post by _random_ »

jerryhuang100 wrote: post #2

"Computing is SO much bigger than just Windows." "In other words, Windows begets Windows." That's so true! I always roll my eyes when I hear someone says "everything could be done under the MS dome with this and that... blah blah". Yeah, surely it will work, but that does not means there is no better, cheaper (free!) and more advanced solution in the Tech universe.

The reverse is true as well, unfortunately. Especially now that Microsoft is getting more and more open-source.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#15

Post by zaphar »

com2kid wrote: post #4

Some really good criticisms, but I do wonder how long ago this developer left .NET. .NET is now heavily async based. WPF may have started it years ago, but async has been a keyword in the language for quite awhile! (I haven't used a proper lock in ages. Event queues are where it is at! Or pick your favorite paradigm, heck the framework comes with thread pools built in that it'll juggle for you!) In regards to .csproj…

I recently had to spend a lot of time with csproj files. They look and behave rather a lot like Ant/Maven. This is not a point in their favor.

Ant/Maven was loved and then subsequently hated by a lot of java developers. XML is an extremely verbose syntax to have to deal with.

But the real killer is one of lockin. Yes you can use msbuild to do things with them but the syntax is really designed not for a developer to read/edit them but for an IDE to serialize state to. Just because there is a command line runner doesn't mean the format is developer friendly. As long as you stay in VS you won't really notice. As soon as you leave though its no longer comfortable. csproj files are one thing I wish .Net had taken a different path from java in.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#16

Post by pjmlp »

chrislomax wrote: post #11

While I agree with some of these points the biggest one for me is client adoption. All clients assume everything is run in Linux. I don't even know why this mindset is so popular. When we develop something and the client wants to host it I can guarantee (more or less) that the platform is Linux and they want to know why the software we have written doesn't work on Linux. I know there is Mono but I always use IIS to r…

> All clients assume everything is run in Linux. I don't even know why this mindset is so popular.

Might be on your part of the globe. On my little world, we have enough Windows only clients to keep us busy.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#17

Post by chrislomax »

_random_ wrote: post #12
chrislomax wrote: post #11

While I agree with some of these points the biggest one for me is client adoption. All clients assume everything is run in Linux. I don't even know why this mindset is so popular. When we develop something and the client wants to host it I can guarantee (more or less) that the platform is Linux and they want to know why the software we have written doesn't work on Linux. I know there is Mono but I always use IIS to r…

You can try Clojure - it is both CLR and JVM. Lisps seem to never die completely :). Definitely not mainstream though.

Thanks.

I know this is something I can do right now but a few things I wanted to look at was node.js and Angular.

I'm definitely in need of catching up on some new techniques, I've been so engrossed in doing paid work that I've not had time to pick up a book and get back to the fun bit of programming

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#18

Post by reitanqild »

Mithaldu wrote: post #8

> traditional Windows devs are typically only good at Windows and get lost very quickly outside of their comfort zones, which is not true for Linux devs Strongly disagree. I've watched scores of Linux-only developers try to do things on windows machines, stumble over small things, and then proceed to blame windows instead of realizing they simply lack experience.

Long time user of both nix and Windows here:

At least around here it seems anyone can be a Windows dev/admin while becoming a *nix admin often takes some dedication.

And to this day the amount of busywork that Windows admins and devs find acceptable still amuses me and not in a good way.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#19

Post by _random_ »

shams93 wrote: post #5

The problem is that while c# is useful for large programs when it comes to doing small stuff like validating and connecting data sources Node or Python are superior tools, but the engineer is shackled, management wants to see every tool written in c# even if c# is ill suited for the task and its possible to use the standard .Net build tools (Visual Studio) to build and test Node scripts for Windows servers. When I wa…

That is not a problem of C# or even Microsoft. The problem is that "management". Use Python and tell them it runs under .NET as well (which is true - IronPython).

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#20

Post by lucisferre »

Mithaldu wrote: post #8

> traditional Windows devs are typically only good at Windows and get lost very quickly outside of their comfort zones, which is not true for Linux devs Strongly disagree. I've watched scores of Linux-only developers try to do things on windows machines, stumble over small things, and then proceed to blame windows instead of realizing they simply lack experience.

I'm not sure if he's referring to IT and admin tasks on the OS or simply experience with other programming languages and paradigms.
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