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Why I Left the .NET Framework

blog.jonathanoliver.com

21–30 of 109 posts

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#21

> Not having a debugger is actually a liberating experience because it forces you to code in a different way. Not having a debugger is like living in the stone age. Personally, the the ability to inspect application state at runtime is non-negotiable.

Some developers need forcing I guess. I personally like many options: debugging, strong typing, static analysis, automated refactoring, unit tests, integration tests, tracing, logging, design-by-contract etc.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#22

While I agree with some of these points the biggest one for me is client adoption. All clients assume everything is run in Linux. I don't even know why this mindset is so popular. When we develop something and the client wants to host it I can guarantee (more or less) that the platform is Linux and they want to know why the software we have written doesn't work on Linux. I know there is Mono but I always use IIS to r…

Try Qt. It's a mature cross-platform framework with a long history back and a good momentum forward. It's also very well deigned.

http://qt-project.org/

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#23
I am technology agnostic developer, a mercenary jumping across technology stacks, from project to project, according to customer wishes.

Actually most of the Linux guys I know, can only manage a specific distribution.

They aren't even aware how commercial UNIXes work or how POSIX is not as standard as they think it is.

The fact is, that it is just impossible to know everything across multiple systems.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#24

> Not having a debugger is actually a liberating experience because it forces you to code in a different way. Not having a debugger is like living in the stone age. Personally, the the ability to inspect application state at runtime is non-negotiable.

Fully agree. Some developers like to live in green phosphor vt100 days.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#25
post #16

While I agree with some of these points the biggest one for me is client adoption. All clients assume everything is run in Linux. I don't even know why this mindset is so popular. When we develop something and the client wants to host it I can guarantee (more or less) that the platform is Linux and they want to know why the software we have written doesn't work on Linux. I know there is Mono but I always use IIS to r…

> All clients assume everything is run in Linux. I don't even know why this mindset is so popular. Might be on your part of the globe. On my little world, we have enough Windows only clients to keep us busy.

We are based in the UK. I don't know if it's the clients and the type of work we are filling but we seem to be migrating a lot of people from Wordpress so typically they expect everything to still run on Linux.

Our clients are normally ones who have come from a small background and are growing quite rapid, this customer is almost certainly on some type of Linux offering.

It's probably a mix of the clients we target and the geographical location.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#26
post #4

Some really good criticisms, but I do wonder how long ago this developer left .NET. .NET is now heavily async based. WPF may have started it years ago, but async has been a keyword in the language for quite awhile! (I haven't used a proper lock in ages. Event queues are where it is at! Or pick your favorite paradigm, heck the framework comes with thread pools built in that it'll juggle for you!) In regards to .csproj…

Agreed - I see VS2013 running very well in a VM even.

For me, VS is the strongest pull of the .Net platform after C# the language. It doesn't take me long in another IDE/language to sigh and wish for something to work as well as VS.

However, I am one of the few that would never use resharper. There are no refactoring features in the world that make a good trade for laggy typing.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#27
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All clients assume everything is run in Linux. I don't even know why this mindset is so popular. Might be on your part of the globe. On my little world, we have enough Windows only clients to keep us busy.

We are based in the UK. I don't know if it's the clients and the type of work we are filling but we seem to be migrating a lot of people from Wordpress so typically they expect everything to still run on Linux. Our clients are normally ones who have come from a small background and are growing quite rapid, this customer is almost certainly on some type of Linux offering. It's probably a mix of the clients we target a…

On my case, Germany with lots of Fortune 500 clients.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#28
post #15
post #4

Some really good criticisms, but I do wonder how long ago this developer left .NET. .NET is now heavily async based. WPF may have started it years ago, but async has been a keyword in the language for quite awhile! (I haven't used a proper lock in ages. Event queues are where it is at! Or pick your favorite paradigm, heck the framework comes with thread pools built in that it'll juggle for you!) In regards to .csproj…

I recently had to spend a lot of time with csproj files. They look and behave rather a lot like Ant/Maven. This is not a point in their favor. Ant/Maven was loved and then subsequently hated by a lot of java developers. XML is an extremely verbose syntax to have to deal with. But the real killer is one of lockin. Yes you can use msbuild to do things with them but the syntax is really designed not for a developer to r…

FYI, next version will have a JSON-based project file (whether this is better or not is left as an exercise to the reader).

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#29
post #8

> traditional Windows devs are typically only good at Windows and get lost very quickly outside of their comfort zones, which is not true for Linux devs Strongly disagree. I've watched scores of Linux-only developers try to do things on windows machines, stumble over small things, and then proceed to blame windows instead of realizing they simply lack experience.

Long time user of both nix and Windows here: At least around here it seems anyone can be a Windows dev/admin while becoming a *nix admin often takes some dedication. And to this day the amount of busywork that Windows admins and devs find acceptable still amuses me and not in a good way.

Are you sure about that? Is it that since Windows compromises 90% of desktop its reasonable to assume that a lot of people have put in 1000s of hours of using, developing, and administering it.

As a counterexample. My Linux servers, when presented with 4 NICs and multiple VLANs, doesn't know what to do with them. I had to edit the iptable. Something that I still haven't needed to do to any of our Windows server.

Different strokes for different folks.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework

#30

While I agree with some of these points the biggest one for me is client adoption. All clients assume everything is run in Linux. I don't even know why this mindset is so popular. When we develop something and the client wants to host it I can guarantee (more or less) that the platform is Linux and they want to know why the software we have written doesn't work on Linux. I know there is Mono but I always use IIS to r…

Maybe because of license issues? Windows also uses more resources.
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