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Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

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Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#101

Post by tripzilch »

pisarzp wrote: post #75
mtgx wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not India-specific. This is definitely happening in Eastern European countries, too, and probably even some of the western ones (although a bit more) - just like with college tuitions. There's something seriously wrong with both the healthcare system and the education system in US if the prices are 20x+ more than in any other country.

This is definitely happening in Eastern European countries, too, and probably even some of the western ones Careful here. I live in London for several years now, and from my experience Eastern European doctors are much better qualified then Western European. I'm originally from Poland, and medical studies are really hard, and people spend whole 6 years cramming just to become an apprentice to the doctor (it's Bachelo…

Same reason why many people in the Netherlands got their eyes lasered in Turkey. Both cheaper (including the flight) and better qualifications (if anything by experience).

This was a few years ago though, from what I've seen the costs for eye lasering here seem to be catching up a little.

Frankly I'm a bit surprised by all the people in this thread saying "well that's a huge price difference, but how do you know Indian doctors are as good as US doctors"--as good? On what basis is the default assumption that US doctors would be better and the Indian ones need to prove themselves? All I know of the US healthcare system is that it's ridiculously overpriced, but just like that $8 bowl of ramen (wat) someone mentioned upthread, doesn't mean it's better, it might even be worse.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#102

Post by jfoster »

tenfingers wrote: post #73

I'd like to point out that the price difference is most likely to do with the marked conditions of the health care in general, and has nothing to do with the quality of the operation itself. There is a big problem with health care in most countries that I've been living into for extended periods of time (France, Italy and to a lesser extent Germany). Anything sorrounding "medical" and/or "health care" has a 10x-100x…

Are you sure you're looking at the whole picture? I imagine liability, lawyers, and a much greater interaction with customers will be driving up costs very substantially when selling widgets as medical devices.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#103

Post by tripzilch »

pessimizer wrote: post #97
andrewparker wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> A doctor trained in India is no less qualified than a doctor trained in the US. This might be objectively true (which you could reasonably determine through some combination of standardize testing and surgery complications/outcomes), but if you ask 100 people on the street in US whether they would prefer to see a US MD or an Indian MD for their heart surgery, I bet 97 or higher would prefer the US MD. The tiny rem…

I think it's probably just racism. I bet you'd see similar outcomes if you let people choose between white doctors and Indian-American doctors, even if the white doctor was the foreign one.

I agree but not sure if it's quite racism, more like prejudice. If it were a relatively poor or say (ex-) communist country with white doctors they'd be wary too.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#104

Post by amerika_blog »

stephencanon wrote: post #74
barking wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In agricultural terminology you can either pay people 'by the day' or pay them 'by the hundred yards'. I have worked in both types of systems and can see merits and pitfalls in both. In the former system there can woeful output whilst in the latter there can be woeful quality. Neither of these are inevitable. In a salary system, if the lazy/incompetent can 'get away with it' and the industrious/competent aren't ackno…

Those aren't the only two options. If you want to incentivize outcomes and efficiency, fee-for-outcome is an obvious option.

> If you want to incentivize outcomes and efficiency, fee-for-outcome is and obvious option.

When I write a contract, there are often two prices: a minimum which is stingy and a bonus which is far from it.

The point is to say that if you do the minimum for this contract, you get a certain amount; if you excel, you get paid for that excellence.

Translated to health care, I think I'd like to see doctors doing less paperwork and more doctoring. It's not perfect, but I trust competition to pay that excellence price to those who deserve it.

That in turn means that if I need some kind of crucial care, I know where it can be found. If the system is over-regulated, that is not so.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#105

Post by amerika_blog »

pisarzp wrote: post #75
mtgx wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not India-specific. This is definitely happening in Eastern European countries, too, and probably even some of the western ones (although a bit more) - just like with college tuitions. There's something seriously wrong with both the healthcare system and the education system in US if the prices are 20x+ more than in any other country.

This is definitely happening in Eastern European countries, too, and probably even some of the western ones Careful here. I live in London for several years now, and from my experience Eastern European doctors are much better qualified then Western European. I'm originally from Poland, and medical studies are really hard, and people spend whole 6 years cramming just to become an apprentice to the doctor (it's Bachelo…

> On the other hand in western countries you can do undergrad degree in anything and only then apply to med school.

This isn't quite right. If you want access to anything but a fly-by-night medical school, they're wanting hard science and most likely a focus in biology.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#106

Post by kamaal »

realrocker wrote: post #72
kamaal wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>You don't see this kind of innovation in the American health system because it has been engineered with greed in mind right from the start. As an Indian, I can tell you people here think the same about our health care system. The Doctor in discussion here, Dr Devi Shetty is a sort of a local hero here in Bangalore. And who knows in some years he might as well be a national hero. Its basically because he seems to br…

I am in Bangalore and don't have medical insurance. Paid Rs 300 fee to General Physician for a consultation another 1500 Rs. for a bunch of tests. In my hometown in Bihar the same thing costs Rs 150+500 with excellent doctors. It's not all rosy but it's not that bad.

The only thing I can tell you is to go and get health insurance ASAP. Both for yourself and your dependents.

Get one and be safe, one serious illness can bankrupt you these days(actually it always has). But my point is even a week of hospitalization can be pretty expensive. And don't be under an impression you will be able to travel to Bihar or wherever when the need arises. During cases of emergency those are not practical solutions.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#107

Post by amerika_blog »

dantheman wrote: post #30
danboarder wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At face value this appears to be a huge opportunity for innovators to take on the whole existing healthcare industry here in the USA. In reality I think many healthcare entrepreneurs either get caught in the existing framework (and dependent on it), or find the regulatory and other hurdles too hard here. That said, I still think there is a LOT of room to improve cost efficiency here, and the right entrepreneur could…

A huge problem in the US is all sorts of really really bad laws. For instance to open a new hospital you have to get permission from other hospitals in the area.

> For instance to open a new hospital you have to get permission from other hospitals in the area.

This sounds like a terrible law. Where can I look for more information on this?

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#108

Post by Steko »

DanBC wrote: post #82

People have mentioned the cost of MRI scans in the US. How much would it cost to buy a bunch of scanners (full body, and bucket-type for arms and legs) and employ technicians to do the scanning and offer this as a service to hospitals? You could have technicians working on shifts to have out-of-hours scanning. The scans are provided in electronic format to the patient and to the doctors specified by the patient. The…

You've framed it as consumer friendly but basically your hypothetical shop, on top of being another middleman, has gained a weak local monopoly on MRI's. That sounds like it's going to be bad for both consumers and hospitals which is why it would never happen.

As a sidenote the problem with MRI's isn't a lack of supply. A popular factoid a few years ago was that Pittsburgh had more MRI machines than Canada. Even if that was only half accurate it tells part of the story about high MRI costs.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#109

Post by yaix »

Maybe it would make more sense to compare it to prices in Europe or other places with similar medical standards.

My guess would be $100k in the US is about $50k in other places. At least my travel health insurence charges twice the rate if I travel to the US compared to "rest of the world".

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#110

Post by DigitalSea »

danboarder wrote: post #15
DigitalSea wrote: post #9

The first supposed fact thrown around in the medical costs argument like this is, "Well in India their cost of living is lower, so they charge considerably less, yadda yadda..." but it's obvious the price difference goes way beyond any cost of living gap. That's over $100,000 in price difference, while it is true the cost of living (salary, prices of every day items) in India is considerably less than that of the US,…

At face value this appears to be a huge opportunity for innovators to take on the whole existing healthcare industry here in the USA. In reality I think many healthcare entrepreneurs either get caught in the existing framework (and dependent on it), or find the regulatory and other hurdles too hard here. That said, I still think there is a LOT of room to improve cost efficiency here, and the right entrepreneur could…

I think someone like Elon Musk is capable of doing such a thing. But the complexities of the law around the medical industry definitely don't make it easy and even after you're up and running, infiltrating a lobbyist dominated niche is the next hurdle.

I'm not sure if you've heard the story but there is an American inventor by the name of Thomas Shaw. He invented the first safe, retractable syringe that was more reliable than any existing solution. Companies tried copying his design and managed only to produce sub-par copies, it's an interesting read. http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2010/1007.blake.ht...

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