Also stop with: interviewing based on rote memorization. Yesterday I had a really crappy (third-party!) phone screen assessing my ASP.NET and some general web dev knowledge. Questions included asking me what the stages are in the ASP.NET page life cycle, how to create Web Control in ASP.NET, what elements are new in HTML5, and how to pop up a new window in Javascript. None of which I know off the top of my head (exce…
I recently got the question, "explains what happens when you type a URL into a browser."
How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)
101–110 of 266 posts
Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)
#102I've been a sales/biz dev entrepreneur & founder for 15 years. Bootstrapped my last co. to $7-fig/yr net (this was non-tech, east coast). Recently moved to bay area to build tech startup grounded in sector I've lived & breathed for many years.
Startup aims to tackle pain-points in enterprise relocation, $50+B market. I have a MVP & have been prospecting/selling 12-15 hrs a day. In 3 weeks since launch I have 2 large companies that have agreed to to direct significant percent of their business to us., this=profitability.
I seek to recruit a talented developer that has product design experience as well as leadership & network capability to become VP product. I'm attending meetups, contributing where able and working hard to connect to SV ecosystem. But developers still seem to see me as the "biz guy" enemy.
Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)
#103Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
You think it's hard to find programmers, at any given level of skill? Maybe I've been fortunate enough to work for companies that had enough gravitational pull that we attract good candidates without trying very hard.
> You think it's hard to find programmers, at any given level of skill? Outside of the tech hub cities, yes, it can be very hard. Even just an hour out of Philadelphia, helping a local company offering $95k salary and benefits (well above average in their area), there were very few applicants and fewer actually qualified to do any professional programming. It took almost a year to fill a single developer position. Pr…
I work for a NYC startup that has hired Philly residents in the past - either remote or remote-occasional-commute. Geographic salary fences are falling, and falling quickly - may I suggest $95K is below-market? Heck, around here $95K is below-market for a good, fresh undergrad.
Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
You think it's hard to find programmers, at any given level of skill? Maybe I've been fortunate enough to work for companies that had enough gravitational pull that we attract good candidates without trying very hard.
> You think it's hard to find programmers, at any given level of skill? Outside of the tech hub cities, yes, it can be very hard. Even just an hour out of Philadelphia, helping a local company offering $95k salary and benefits (well above average in their area), there were very few applicants and fewer actually qualified to do any professional programming. It took almost a year to fill a single developer position. Pr…
I've gotten into a debate with some friends about this: a degree on a resume is really great, but it's not necessary for the vast majority of programming jobs.
> helping a local company offering $95k salary and benefits
I hear that driving a truck in the North Dakota oil boom can earn you $150k, to start. Even in a Buyer's Market, you have to offer a realistic salary.
> well above average in their area
Average what? Average programmer?
> there were very few applicants
How did the company find candidates? I feel like a lot of companies expect applicants... This is like expecting the phone to ring and having someone ask you out on a date. Putting your profile up on Match.com isn't much better.
If you want to hire people an hour out of Philadelphia, have you considered training people who live an hour out of Philadelphia for the job?
Again, I've said this a few times, maybe I've been very fortunate to work at companies with enough gravitational pull, because we work hard to make sure people know they're supposed to apply. But since we've put that effort in, we have overly-qualified applicants lined up for openings that don't exist.
> many were completely incompetent
You just told me that CS graduates can still be completely incompetent, but then you expressed surprise that apparently degrees don't matter that much any more. =)
Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
(The following is made up and CERTAINLY isn't for the job I currently have open for a senior PHP dev in Melbourne.AU) Here's why you don't see question one answered honestly: A. Our sales guys sold our product based on feature "Foo" a year ago. We haven't started coding but they need a demo next week. You have to grok our codebase and write it on your first day. B. The 'Bar' feature was written by a guy who should ha…
Your 'Zap' is bothering me. What happened to Baz?
Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You think it's hard to find programmers, at any given level of skill? If it were easy to find programmers, you wouldn't have all these shops using spam-tactic recruiters to drive volume. They wouldn't need to. It's most definitely a seller's market, if programmers can take their pick of corporate gig | freelancing | startup. My last job hunt took one hour. Their search went on for two months. If they fired me I cou…
> you wouldn't have all these shops using spam-tactic recruiters to drive volume. I think those are unrelated concepts. I think connecting with the right pool of talent is an art, and a lot of shops are completely artless. > It's most definitely a seller's market, if programmers can take their pick Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never worked at a company that felt like we couldn't take our pick of applicants. Especi…
The software industry is highly bimodal. There are two very, very clear camps - you fall into the other camp than most HNers.
The market for mid-top end talent is a huge sellers market. There aren't enough people to go around, salaries inflate double-digit percentages every year, and crazily does not seem to be stopping.
The market for low-end warm-body coders is a huge buyers market. There are more clueless VB coders than there are seats; many, many more.
Do you, by any chance, work for a consultancy where innovation, code quality, or engineering excellence aren't exactly high up on the list of priorities? This may explain your glut of candidates - whereas on the other side of the industry fence companies are offering six-figures to fresh graduates and creating bidding wars around entry-level applicants?
Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's some good stuff, but I'd add a couple: 1a. Show me the office I'll be working in. Any "open plan" or "2+ people per office" setup decreases your odds of hiring me by about 93%. Not to say I'll never take a job like that, but it really, really hurts your odds. 1b. Show me the rest of the building... are there common areas where people can hang out and collaborate away from their offices, preferably with natural…
I purposely didn't include any of yours. Why? 1. Mine are issues and yours are details. If my 10 are satisfactory, I can live with your 9, even though some may not be satisfactory. But if you 9 are good and my 10 aren't, I'd last about a year before moving on because of lack of meaning. 2. Mine are about them, yours are about you. 3. Mine show interest in the big picture; yours could easily paint you as a demanding n…
I certainly drilled down into more detail, but I'm not convinced that there's as much of a dichotomy there as you may see. Nonetheless, I understand what you're saying, but I'd counter that "details matter" and that different details matter more to some people than others. Also, I certainly don't intend that list to be seen as an alternative to your list, I mean it to be additive (from my perspective anyway).
2. Mine are about them, yours are about you.
To some extent, yes. But asking whether or not a company has, and understands, a reasonable software development methodology, or whether or not they have a culture that foster employee engagement and empowerment, is very much about them.
Mine show interest in the big picture; yours could easily paint you as a demanding nit-picker (whether you are or not).
Yes, I will say that I chose to drill down to a deeper level of detail. Basically I'm working backwards from the bad stuff I've actually seen in my career, and putting it in terms of "these things suck, I don't want to be in this environment, so convince me that this won't be the case here".
I just don't think I ever would (or ever have) discussed them with a prospective employer.
I mostly didn't in the past myself. But that was out of naivety, or fear. Either I was naive about the existence of the issue, or I felt like "I need this job too bad to be too demanding." As I've gotten older and more comfortable in my skin, and more confident in the value I can provide, I don't worry about that as much. I can walk away from a job offer, knowing there will be others.
And even if I didn't discuss these issues with potential employers, they have certainly been factors. I was invited to an interview with $BIGCORP once, went in, did the first round of interviews, and then got a phone call asking me to come back in. I politely declined. Why? I saw that all of their developers were in a big cattle shed full of low-walled cubicles - an environment that I consider "optimized for maximum distractions" and fairly inhumane. I decided they weren't a good fit for me based on that factor alone. Doesn't mean they were wrong and I was write, or vice versa, it just wasn't a fit that would have worked.
Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)
#109I've got to agree with you. I recently started getting serious about changing positions and I've become completely convinced that much of the so-called 'talent shortage' is caused by the job search process, from job listings through to interviews. Every step is unintentionally outrageous in a new way. The first step, finding open positions that are appropriate to your skills and abilities, is overwhelming and impossi…
You don't need to be famous, not even close. You did get it right though - you do have to know people.
Finding your next job is something you should be doing before you're actually thinking about leaving your current one. Go to meetups, look up interesting companies in your area and make yourself known to them - you'd be surprised how many people are willing to chat even with the knowledge that there's a 0% chance of you jumping ship in the foreseeable future.
It's not only a great way to get your name out there and make a few contacts, but it's also a great way to find out what's happening in your local tech community.
It is also necessary. In my experience the best employers and the best positions fulfill primarily via word of mouth. By the time a job hits a major job site it means the employer has already failed their first-choice option (i.e., a known referral by a trusted entity).
Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)
#110- Be Interesting
Well, the company either is or it isn't. If you're an auto parts distributor who needs to convert your application from Cobol on AIX to ASP.NET on Windows, then well, you aren't really very interesting. And there's not one thing the recruiter can possibly do to change that.
* Care
Perhaps you genuinely care, but what if you don't? The recruiter is human too. Maybe they just want to do their job and go home. You can't decide to genuinely care. You either already do, or not. And we're saying they absolutely must not pretend to care. So ... the only remaining option is not caring.
* Acknowledge Applicants
I don't think Matt appreciates the sheer volume of resumés that come in for an advertised position. I know some HR departments that insist on sending an acknowledgement for every received application, and they spend a lot of man-hours on it, and are constantly having to defend this practice to executives. And honestly, why does the typical badly-formatted, ungrammatical resumé actually deserve a response, anyway? Matt may be a special unique snowflake, but trust me, all those other people aren't.
* Get to Know Programmers
You can't do this without getting to know programming. And the whole point of specialization of labor is that you shouldn't have to. You can hire a doctor, lawyer or plumber while knowing nothing about plumbing, doctoring or lawyering. Why should it be different for programmers? As a profession, why should the rest of the world bow to our desires, instead of us creating a better product for them to buy?
* Let Me Code, Dammit
This is the one piece of good advice. The best way to interview in any field is to engage the applicant in job-related task behaviors and observe the results. With programming, we're lucky that this happens to be pretty easy. But I don't understand how this squares with the earlier rejection of having the applicant code a Fibonacci function.