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Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

reuters.com

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Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#101

Post by Hikikomori »

phil21 wrote: post #77
jrowen wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They did. They elected Trump. I would say that speaks more to apathy than activism. > Some people view the president as the only directly-elected person powerful enough to fight for them in dismantling the rest of a government that isn't working I think consciously verbalizing a position even that nuanced and esoteric is niche, but there is certainly something to be said for peoples' susceptibility to a type of "st…

> I would say that speaks more to apathy than activism And I would say that speaks more to your disconnect with most of US society. Very few folks actually trust activists for good reason. Trump is like the most mild form of what is to come. The fact he got elected when he did is remarkable to me. It only gets worse from here if things don’t change. At some point someone like him who is actually serious will be elect…

We're already there. Project 2025/federalist society is using Trump as they have some goals in common, but they are the real drive behind ICE, DOGE, foreign policy like Venezuela, and general destruction of the federal government.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#102

Post by _DeadFred_ »

dmitriy_ko wrote: post #44
antonymoose wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my area (South Carolina) - the opposition seems hyper fixated on “water use” with little or no conversation around electrical usage or even equitable utility rates. AI itself largely absent from the discourse.

Data centers use miniscular amount of water. Data center water use is a fake issue.

Many communities are water limited. Many communities limit housing construction permits to available sewer hookups. Many communities are carrying expensive bonds that citizens are paying off to fund water expansion projects.

I do not want one penny of infrastructure that I have paid for in order to grow/better my community going to subsidize infrastructure for datacenters.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#103

Post by everdrive »

jrowen wrote: post #69
everdrive wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Everyone may be discontent (which might be a baseline feature of the human experience for many), but is anyone actually willing to do anything about it? Talking to people on HN, the answer is a resounding "NO." If I point out that smart phones are contributing to mental illness and have enabled mass-scale surveillance larger than ever previously thought possible, the response has been "but I might have trouble payin…

Smart phones are fine though. Technology is just what we make it. It's a reflection. It is, and always has been, the people that need to change.

I couldn't disagree with this more. Yes, you individually control whether or not you use your smartphone, but the device itself is terrible in ways that I have no control over:

- touch controls rather than a real UI

- a terrible app store full of monetized garbage

- incredibly bad privacy options

- etc ..

In addition to that, modern society is moving towards requiring the usage of these devices. It's harder to opt out more and more every year. This is very much not a choice I can make. My employer would NOT accommodate me if I did not have a place to install their OTP app.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#104

Post by jrowen »

everdrive wrote: post #100
jrowen wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They did. They elected Trump. I would say that speaks more to apathy than activism. > Some people view the president as the only directly-elected person powerful enough to fight for them in dismantling the rest of a government that isn't working I think consciously verbalizing a position even that nuanced and esoteric is niche, but there is certainly something to be said for peoples' susceptibility to a type of "st…

>I would say that speaks more to apathy than activism. Whatever else you'd want to say about Trump supporters, I wouldn't call them apathetic. Maybe I'm reading your comment wrong, but I can't see how anyone could characterize Trump's base as "apathetic."

I tried to be clever and succinct and it backfired.

I was more referring to "everyone else" as apathetic. Generally, I don't think voting is itself considered an act of activism. Somebody will always win the election regardless of overall levels of activism and apathy. January 6 could be considered activism, however (the bad kind that's closer to a riot). "Get out the vote" grassroots efforts are activism.

I think there is currently a general lack of enthusiasm for the political system and process in the US, and a lack of faith in the government. Trump has tapped into that, and riled people up. Tapping into fear and aggression and anger does not inspire what I would consider to be traditional political and civic activism which IMO is more rooted in "let's work together to make things better for our people."

As opposed to, "let's say MAGA but actually start foreign and domestic conflicts and squander resources on pointless personal ego projects." It is disturbing to me that people continue to support that but I'm still calling it more apathetic than activist.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#105

Post by everdrive »

jrowen wrote: post #104
everdrive wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I would say that speaks more to apathy than activism. Whatever else you'd want to say about Trump supporters, I wouldn't call them apathetic. Maybe I'm reading your comment wrong, but I can't see how anyone could characterize Trump's base as "apathetic."

I tried to be clever and succinct and it backfired. I was more referring to "everyone else" as apathetic. Generally, I don't think voting is itself considered an act of activism. Somebody will always win the election regardless of overall levels of activism and apathy. January 6 could be considered activism, however (the bad kind that's closer to a riot). "Get out the vote" grassroots efforts are activism. I think th…

Thanks for the clarification. The interesting thing about the 2024 election was that Trump's turnout was higher than 2016, and in addition, according to the polling and analysis I saw, this was one of the first times in a long time where if _more_ people had voted, he would have had _more_ votes. This is in pretty stark contrast to presidential voting trends for the last 30-40 years. So although I think you could paint 2016 as an "apathy" election (I would still argue that 2016 was more about two deeply unpopular candidates than anything else) I'm not sure that same analysis really applies to 2024. I'm basing a lot of this on this very interesting interview here -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx0J7dIlL7c -- so to the extent that I'm wrong or you disagree, this at least gives some context to my claims.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#106

Post by jrowen »

everdrive wrote: post #105
jrowen wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to be clever and succinct and it backfired. I was more referring to "everyone else" as apathetic. Generally, I don't think voting is itself considered an act of activism. Somebody will always win the election regardless of overall levels of activism and apathy. January 6 could be considered activism, however (the bad kind that's closer to a riot). "Get out the vote" grassroots efforts are activism. I think th…

Thanks for the clarification. The interesting thing about the 2024 election was that Trump's turnout was higher than 2016, and in addition, according to the polling and analysis I saw, this was one of the first times in a long time where if _more_ people had voted, he would have had _more_ votes. This is in pretty stark contrast to presidential voting trends for the last 30-40 years. So although I think you could pai…

I did look that up and took out a line about voter turnout because of it. He definitely has rallied people. He does tap into an energy that the DNC has been blind to. But if you look at the tenor of it, it really does seem to be about anger and dissatisfaction and combativeness -- destructive rather than constructive. MAGA talking points and initiatives aren't about building up communities, schools, infrastructure...they're about all the bogeymans.

I do see the failure of either party to produce a truly constructively inspiring candidate as something seriously wrong with the system. Thanks for the link, it does seem interesting.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#107

Post by hollerith »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #67
adriand wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these mitigations (although they’re good ideas) address what I think is the real issue here, which is that people don’t like AI. And why would they, when the dish being served by AI CEOs is job loss with a side of extinction risk. I think many data centre opponents understand that being opposed to AI is not sufficient to halt a local project, so it is noise, water use and power consumption that they latch ont…

> with a side of extinction risk. My proposal would be to require data-centers to provide enough clean energy to power themselves for years to come. That would help humanity survive. Plus it would lower energy costs when there is more power-generaion available. Lowering your power-bill would make people love AI.

That addresses the extinction risk caused by climate change, but not the extinction risk caused by an AI's turning out vastly more capable than expected, then the lab's losing control over it.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#108

Post by jrowen »

everdrive wrote: post #103
jrowen wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smart phones are fine though. Technology is just what we make it. It's a reflection. It is, and always has been, the people that need to change.

I couldn't disagree with this more. Yes, you individually control whether or not you use your smartphone, but the device itself is terrible in ways that I have no control over: - touch controls rather than a real UI - a terrible app store full of monetized garbage - incredibly bad privacy options - etc .. In addition to that, modern society is moving towards requiring the usage of these devices. It's harder to opt ou…

What I said was meant to apply at the societal level. I wasn't meaning to speak to personal responsibility. The fact that it's become standard practice for employers to require OTP or MDM is a reflection of how society chooses to use the technology.

It's like when Facebook was the bogeyman. Facebook is just a mirror. If you see bad stuff happening (e.g. people spreading and engaging with misinformation), that's the people, not the platform. Unless one is claiming specific intent on their part, Facebook (like most tech) enables good and bad in equal measure.

Getting rid of, or pushing back on, Facebook, or data centers, or smart phones, isn't going to move the needle toward a more caring and empathetic society. Those are all red herrings. Build schools. Pay teachers. Push back on fearmongering, xenophobia, and greed. Educating people to be good participants in the global community is the only chance we have.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#109

Post by everdrive »

jrowen wrote: post #106
everdrive wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the clarification. The interesting thing about the 2024 election was that Trump's turnout was higher than 2016, and in addition, according to the polling and analysis I saw, this was one of the first times in a long time where if _more_ people had voted, he would have had _more_ votes. This is in pretty stark contrast to presidential voting trends for the last 30-40 years. So although I think you could pai…

I did look that up and took out a line about voter turnout because of it. He definitely has rallied people. He does tap into an energy that the DNC has been blind to. But if you look at the tenor of it, it really does seem to be about anger and dissatisfaction and combativeness -- destructive rather than constructive. MAGA talking points and initiatives aren't about building up communities, schools, infrastructure...…

Agreed wholeheartedly, thanks for the response.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#110

Post by happytoexplain »

jrowen wrote: post #87
dehrmann wrote: post #36

People are actually angry about inflation and a sense of a stagnant labor market. Data centers and AI play into both those fears.

Sadly if they were smart they would push for UBI rather than jobs or stopping data centers. Zero-sum scarcity mentality needs to end. Don't push back on prosperity. Push to have those gains distributed more evenly. Push for a ridiculous tax on data centers that goes directly to the local economy. If they don't buy it then it's the same result as blocking them on vibes.

UBI is a distraction. Of course it would help, but it's not a solution. Nobody is going to accept "here's how you filthy masses can be miserable instead of very miserable" as an acceptable compromise.

Calling people stupid for not accepting it is telling, and disconnected. Americans in particular will accept violence first (demonstrably), and this is in fact one of the defining virtues of Americans (yes, violence in the face of the imposition of misery by the wealthy is a virtue - not all cultures exhibit this virtue).

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