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Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

reuters.com

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Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#31

Post by ijk »

mukbangpervert wrote: post #21
wahern wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's inaccurate to claim that the opposition is "completely irrational". One _extremely_ rational and common reason that people oppose these projects is that they can bid-up the energy cost in their regions, meaning that one of the residents biggest monthly bills gets bigger. A second one goes around pollution and noise, particularly when the AI DataCenter is using "portable" gas turbines or similar. Solutions are ha…

The portable gas turbine is a somewhat separate issue, in that it's highly illegal but if you have more money than god you can just pay off the fines and the judges.

It's relatively easy to avoid being that egregious about it if you're a little bit patient on construction permits and power contracts.

NIMBY opposition to datacenter construction is orthogonal to that, except insofar as in both cases the construction will gravitate toward places that won't or can't object to the construction.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#32

Post by JimsonYang »

JimsonYang wrote: post #28

I mean Michigan really loves it when something gives jobs, so as long as the data center actually enacts on it then I suspect opposition will go away That said, we've seen data center projects often employ much less jobs than expected. I know Core Scientific when they did a data center in like Texas they employed like 10 people not 200

*upate I just realized this is Saline, next to Ann Arbor and had a lot of student activism to push back against the data centre project like last year

So imo I dont think the article truly represents the opinions and thoughts of most michiganders

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#33

Post by annzabelle »

consensus1 wrote: post #29
mukbangpervert wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's inaccurate to claim that the opposition is "completely irrational". One _extremely_ rational and common reason that people oppose these projects is that they can bid-up the energy cost in their regions, meaning that one of the residents biggest monthly bills gets bigger. A second one goes around pollution and noise, particularly when the AI DataCenter is using "portable" gas turbines or similar. Solutions are ha…

Residential electricity rates don't get "bid up" like that. Increases typically must be approved by the government and have to be justified by expenses rather than market prices. Ashburn VA, which has more data centers than anywhere else, actually pays below US average rates.

Growing up near Ashburn makes every anti data center argument feel like crazy land. From my perspective when I lived there, they were somewhat ugly large boxes that paid county tax and raised land value. I never noticed any kind of noise from them, though they were largely on industrially zoned land right by the airport. Also gave us single digit ping. Electricity rates are below the national average.

Now that I'm an adult I have several friends employed in the industry, mostly in cooling system automation.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#34

Post by everdrive »

Populism is on the rise, and nearly everyone is discontent. The discontent has gotten so out of hand that much of it is quite ridiculous, but it's serious enough that it must be dealt with. Given the past 20 years, I expect politicians to completely fumble this easy layup and find ways to force data centers anyhow.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#35

Post by antonymoose »

adriand wrote: post #27
fleventynine wrote: post #6

I think there's room for win-win solutions here; the cost of placating the locals is a rounding error compared to the cost of these data centers. 1. Local governments can require that if the data center peak load is 1.0GW, they must provision transmission and generation capacity for the local region of 1.2GW; the extra power can be given to the neighbors at substantial discount. 2. Construct a public swimming complex…

None of these mitigations (although they’re good ideas) address what I think is the real issue here, which is that people don’t like AI. And why would they, when the dish being served by AI CEOs is job loss with a side of extinction risk. I think many data centre opponents understand that being opposed to AI is not sufficient to halt a local project, so it is noise, water use and power consumption that they latch ont…

In my area (South Carolina) - the opposition seems hyper fixated on “water use” with little or no conversation around electrical usage or even equitable utility rates. AI itself largely absent from the discourse.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#37

Post by lostlogin »

consensus1 wrote: post #29
mukbangpervert wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's inaccurate to claim that the opposition is "completely irrational". One _extremely_ rational and common reason that people oppose these projects is that they can bid-up the energy cost in their regions, meaning that one of the residents biggest monthly bills gets bigger. A second one goes around pollution and noise, particularly when the AI DataCenter is using "portable" gas turbines or similar. Solutions are ha…

Residential electricity rates don't get "bid up" like that. Increases typically must be approved by the government and have to be justified by expenses rather than market prices. Ashburn VA, which has more data centers than anywhere else, actually pays below US average rates.

This might be true in the US (which is obviously what the article is about) but it isn’t everywhere. Data centre impact is a concern here in New Zealand and we have a poor track record of handling the impact of large users of electricity. Case in point - the aluminium smelter that has manipulated the entire country power prices (and various other things) via threats.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#38

Post by lostlogin »

lokar wrote: post #20
wahern wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The noise issue is not irrational. But, they should establish objective criteria for noise (at various distances, frequencies and frequency variation) Issues around the cost of infrastructure upgrades being spread over all rate payers are not universal, and can be corrected.

> The noise issue is not irrational.

It’s quite the thing to say it’s irrational whilst acknowledging you are insensitive to sounds.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#39

Post by jrowen »

everdrive wrote: post #34

Populism is on the rise, and nearly everyone is discontent. The discontent has gotten so out of hand that much of it is quite ridiculous, but it's serious enough that it must be dealt with. Given the past 20 years, I expect politicians to completely fumble this easy layup and find ways to force data centers anyhow.

Everyone may be discontent (which might be a baseline feature of the human experience for many), but is anyone actually willing to do anything about it?

Compared to the activism of the 60s and 70s, where so many people seemed willing to put their entire lives on hold for the cause, the fact that there is no major populist uprising against the dismantling of the institution of the presidency leads me to believe there is a threshold of contentment afforded by modern technology and QoL.

In either case it is about populism though. Hopping on a bus to California to protest was a cool thing to do. Somehow this data center thing happened to catch on and become a lever people felt they could move with mere outrage, even if it does seem pretty misguided.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#40

Post by austin-cheney »

wahern wrote: post #11
fleventynine wrote: post #6

I think there's room for win-win solutions here; the cost of placating the locals is a rounding error compared to the cost of these data centers. 1. Local governments can require that if the data center peak load is 1.0GW, they must provision transmission and generation capacity for the local region of 1.2GW; the extra power can be given to the neighbors at substantial discount. 2. Construct a public swimming complex…

[flagged]

I oppose the data centers because they drive up utility costs and contribute to the instability of the local electrical grid. I get pain from them and no benefits. I really don’t want most of the unprofitable AI foolishness that is being forced on us.
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