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Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

reuters.com

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Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#61

Post by swed420 »

gustavus wrote: post #56
swed420 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've long suspected that monied interests are seeding social media with weak arguments about water as a distraction, and people mindlessly re-share that as part of their identity. Then the other half can come along and "correct" them while the main issue of power is forgotten. Social media gets engagement, and capital gets its data centers. It's the same tired distraction pattern we've seen for a long time now in pol…

I suspect rather foreign actors seed some of the anti data center narrative in order to try and reduce American capability to compete in the space, just like the Soviets did with nuclear in the 60-80s.

If they wanted to do that, they'd pick stronger arguments for starters. But either way, social media updoots and shares aren't going to change anything with capital's plans, so it'd be weird for a foreign power to think that it would.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#62

Post by fleventynine »

0xy wrote: post #53
adriand wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these mitigations (although they’re good ideas) address what I think is the real issue here, which is that people don’t like AI. And why would they, when the dish being served by AI CEOs is job loss with a side of extinction risk. I think many data centre opponents understand that being opposed to AI is not sufficient to halt a local project, so it is noise, water use and power consumption that they latch ont…

AI is not leading to job losses.

It's pretty clear to me that coding agents are a significant cause of the current glut of comp-sci graduates unable to find their first job...

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#63

Post by rileymat2 »

fleventynine wrote: post #6

I think there's room for win-win solutions here; the cost of placating the locals is a rounding error compared to the cost of these data centers. 1. Local governments can require that if the data center peak load is 1.0GW, they must provision transmission and generation capacity for the local region of 1.2GW; the extra power can be given to the neighbors at substantial discount. 2. Construct a public swimming complex…

With low pitched data center noise does the decibel level tell the whole story? I thought it carried better and penetrated better than the db level would indicate.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#64

Post by ninkendo »

phil21 wrote: post #54
ninkendo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what fallacy you’re going to use to justify GPU-heavy data centers using zero water: are you going to take the “they’re closed loop” path, and conveniently ignore that they need to be continually topped off, and that effectively makes them open loop anyway (or that they heat exchange with a separate loop that is evaporated?) Or maybe you’ll just say “sure the water evaporates, but it’ll rain down somewhere s…

Water usage in this context is a rounding error on a rounding error on top of a rounding error when it comes to corn production for ethanol. Anyone bringing it up does not actually care about the water usage. It’s just a politically easy topic to get traction with. If anyone starts off their anti-datacenter screed with this, it instantly outs them as someone you can ignore as unserious person on the topic. Plenty of…

I’m against corn production for ethanol too: that AI datacenters aren’t as bad as one of the worst ideas our country has ever had, isn’t much praise.

You know what instantly outs someone as unserious on the topic for me? When they give an unqualified “none of that is true” when someone talks about water use. I agree discussion should carry the nuance, but this conversation started with none of it.

A modern 100MW scale datacenter uses about as much water as a 5-10k population municipality. And provides about as many jobs as a medium-sized wal-mart. Whether that’s a lot to you or not certainly depends on where the proposed datacenter is being built. But it does nobody any good to simply say “nuh uh, you’re wrong” when someone talks about the water use. Nor does bringing up any number of other high-water-using industrial sites that people also wouldn’t want in their back yard.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#65

Post by gustavus »

swed420 wrote: post #61
gustavus wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect rather foreign actors seed some of the anti data center narrative in order to try and reduce American capability to compete in the space, just like the Soviets did with nuclear in the 60-80s.

If they wanted to do that, they'd pick stronger arguments for starters. But either way, social media updoots and shares aren't going to change anything with capital's plans, so it'd be weird for a foreign power to think that it would.

They don't need strong arguments they need emotionally resonent ones, "AI is using all your water" is a more primal, plus doesn't matter they just flood with a thousand different arguments.

And updoots might not but plenty of people now are protesting and pushing against allowing data centers to be built near them so it is working.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#66

Post by jrowen »

sseagull wrote: post #48
jrowen wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone may be discontent (which might be a baseline feature of the human experience for many), but is anyone actually willing to do anything about it? Compared to the activism of the 60s and 70s, where so many people seemed willing to put their entire lives on hold for the cause, the fact that there is no major populist uprising against the dismantling of the institution of the presidency leads me to believe there…

> but is anyone actually willing to do anything about it? They did. They elected Trump. > no major populist uprising against the dismantling of the institution of the presidency Some people view the president as the only directly-elected person powerful enough to fight for them in dismantling the rest of a government that isn't working (or even actively working against them). So they implicitly want a strong presiden…

> They did. They elected Trump.

I would say that speaks more to apathy than activism.

> Some people view the president as the only directly-elected person powerful enough to fight for them in dismantling the rest of a government that isn't working

I think consciously verbalizing a position even that nuanced and esoteric is niche, but there is certainly something to be said for peoples' susceptibility to a type of "strong" cult leader.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#67

Post by galaxyLogic »

adriand wrote: post #27
fleventynine wrote: post #6

I think there's room for win-win solutions here; the cost of placating the locals is a rounding error compared to the cost of these data centers. 1. Local governments can require that if the data center peak load is 1.0GW, they must provision transmission and generation capacity for the local region of 1.2GW; the extra power can be given to the neighbors at substantial discount. 2. Construct a public swimming complex…

None of these mitigations (although they’re good ideas) address what I think is the real issue here, which is that people don’t like AI. And why would they, when the dish being served by AI CEOs is job loss with a side of extinction risk. I think many data centre opponents understand that being opposed to AI is not sufficient to halt a local project, so it is noise, water use and power consumption that they latch ont…

> with a side of extinction risk.

My proposal would be to require data-centers to provide enough clean energy to power themselves for years to come. That would help humanity survive. Plus it would lower energy costs when there is more power-generaion available. Lowering your power-bill would make people love AI.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#68

Post by galaxyLogic »

annzabelle wrote: post #30
wahern wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I grew up right by Ashburn, Virginia, which has the largest concentration of hyperscale data centers in the world. I rarely heard of organized opposition to them until they became a politically charged issue and associated with white collar layoffs. I never once noticed significant noise from any of them - they are nearly all on the opposite side of a wide road from the nearest housing, and the road is louder than th…

Data-centers should be required to provide their own clean energy plus some extra for the community. That would also create clean-energy jobs.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#69

Post by jrowen »

everdrive wrote: post #57
jrowen wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone may be discontent (which might be a baseline feature of the human experience for many), but is anyone actually willing to do anything about it? Compared to the activism of the 60s and 70s, where so many people seemed willing to put their entire lives on hold for the cause, the fact that there is no major populist uprising against the dismantling of the institution of the presidency leads me to believe there…

>Everyone may be discontent (which might be a baseline feature of the human experience for many), but is anyone actually willing to do anything about it? Talking to people on HN, the answer is a resounding "NO." If I point out that smart phones are contributing to mental illness and have enabled mass-scale surveillance larger than ever previously thought possible, the response has been "but I might have trouble payin…

Smart phones are fine though. Technology is just what we make it. It's a reflection. It is, and always has been, the people that need to change.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#70

Post by swed420 »

gustavus wrote: post #65
swed420 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they wanted to do that, they'd pick stronger arguments for starters. But either way, social media updoots and shares aren't going to change anything with capital's plans, so it'd be weird for a foreign power to think that it would.

They don't need strong arguments they need emotionally resonent ones, "AI is using all your water" is a more primal, plus doesn't matter they just flood with a thousand different arguments. And updoots might not but plenty of people now are protesting and pushing against allowing data centers to be built near them so it is working.

Like everything else, it's only a matter of time before capital gets its way. Democracy is illusory in case you haven't noticed.
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