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Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

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Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#101
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, just no. I get where you’re coming from, but I disagree in the strongest terms that copying China is the way forward. Closed, centralized models can scale quickly, as China did, but open models generate more frontier innovation and resilience. Iirc, nearly half of our unicorns have immigrant founders. Sure, let’s harden IP and other trade laws, and punish China for violations (start treating them as an adult, a n…

this is what most WEIRD people do not understand: (Western-Educated-Industrial-Rich-Democratic) - by today it looks like that the Chinese system may proof to be more "performant" on most/several (all?) levels. Its hard to accept for libertarian minds, i guess. Once here on HN someone wrote like: "democratic systems seems to be too slow to adapt in world changing at our current speed". China did some vey wise decision…

I agree that our system (America’s, specifically) is too slow, but it’s not inherent to democracy, it’s the fact we only have elections every few years, because these rules were written in the 1700s when holding an election / voting in an election was difficult. No snap elections when the government is about to shut down (would’ve prevented all the nonsense of the last month and a half).

This isn’t cope. China has virtually no cultural exports of note compared to its size, except some gacha games (that are still mainly voiced in Japanese, which does have cultural exports). Every time I visit, I have to accept that my internet is going to be ridiculously unreliable and throttled and flaky.

I’m not saying China is “wrong”, but it’s not the obvious winner to me. Nor is it to my Chinese-born spouse who moved here for the greater opportunities and freedom.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#102
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and I are content with it, but these standards were never really about our individual and immediate experiences. It's about concurrent capacity for the growing grid as a whole.

The grid must grow!

It's Bieber 6G Fever!

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#103
post #32
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our leaders in the West have been very naive. Also the Chinese "elite capture" program has been very effective.

You mean old we-don’t-care-bout-human-and-environmental-rights trick? Let’s face it, nobody would care if China just would be a subordinate receiver of orders. As soon they became a competitor there was a problem

> As soon they became a competitor there was a problem

Was there? It seems to me trade and offshoring continued even after they became a competitor. And then continued after they strong-armed Western corporations to invest in China [1], destroyed Western corporations through espionage [2,3], or through subsidy-enabled dumping prices and preferential treatment [4,4.1], after they extracted groveling apologies from Western firms [5], and after they started operating literal police stations on Western soil [6], while turning Western countries into subordinate receivers of orders [7,8].

I guess you were hoping your framing would guilt people into not seeing the threat?

[1] Apple CEO Tim Cook "secretly" signed an agreement worth more than $275 billion with Chinese officials, promising that Apple would help to develop China's economy and technological capabilities - https://www.macrumors.com/2021/12/07/apple-ceo-tim-cook-secr...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33758673

[3] https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-milita...

[4] https://www.dw.com/en/from-solar-to-evs-how-china-is-overpro...

[4.1] EU: Anti-dumping probe into China solar panels - https://apnews.com/general-news-e16007adf4bd468d9acf849734d2...

[5] Mercedes-Benz apologizes to Chinese for quoting Dalai Lama - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mercedes-benz-china-gaffe...

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_police_overseas_servic...

[7] FIPA agreement with China: What's really in it for Canada? - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/fipa-agreement-with-china-wha...

[8] Posters depicting Hong Kong protests removed by Massey University within 12 hours - https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116723925/posters-depicting...

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#104
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is what most WEIRD people do not understand: (Western-Educated-Industrial-Rich-Democratic) - by today it looks like that the Chinese system may proof to be more "performant" on most/several (all?) levels. Its hard to accept for libertarian minds, i guess. Once here on HN someone wrote like: "democratic systems seems to be too slow to adapt in world changing at our current speed". China did some vey wise decision…

I agree that our system (America’s, specifically) is too slow, but it’s not inherent to democracy, it’s the fact we only have elections every few years, because these rules were written in the 1700s when holding an election / voting in an election was difficult. No snap elections when the government is about to shut down (would’ve prevented all the nonsense of the last month and a half). This isn’t cope. China has vi…

>>China has virtually no cultural exports of note compared to its size,

++1

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#105
post #30

On the other hand Spain is using Huawei servers for almost all of their sensitive data. I wonder how the UE, and NATO, will react to that, because they're using Huawei for Social Security data, wiretapping data (SITEL), or even Intelligence Services data. https://therecord.media/spain-awards-contracts-huawei-intell...

I get why you do so, but the European Union is always shortened to EU, not UE.

It would be as if I wrote a sentence, "The EWG was created by the treaty of Rome in 1957".

What is EWG? Oh yes its the German abbreviation for the EEC. But we're writing in English?

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#106
post #9

Good. Don't forget their incredibly affordable and attractive smartphones and the fact that they have almost completely captured the market for cellular transceiver chips used in USB mobile modems, both of which are excellent products for espionage and weaponization just like their cellular network equipment.

If secure phones were legal, we'd be treating the modem chip as part of the hostile network - the application processor would encrypt all data before sending it.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd more say: they made clear rules if you want to play business in China. Europe never set any boundaries. Honestly our fault.

Now EU is making clear rules against China. EU should apply exactly the same laws against Chinese like Chinese do against foreigners. China shouldn't complain, especially don't bitch about racism.

> especially don't bitch about racism.

The "most racist" places are typically the most diverse and most multicultural. They have more exposed tissue than places where minorities make up single digit percentage points, so you see injustices more often in these places. And it follows that it gets reported on at volume.

By that same coin, these places also have more friendly interactions by volume than places without diverse racial makeups. You just don't see that reported because it's not news.

America, "racist", simply has a very diverse population.

The American South, "racist against Black people", simply has the nation's largest population of Black people almost to the point the racial makeup is bimodal.

Texas, "racist against Latinos", - same thing.

You see the bad apples, but you don't see the overwhelming degree to which society works with people together in a melting pot.

I grew up in the South, where every second person is Black. I fly to SF where there are barely any Black people at all and have dinner conversations with people calling my region racist. Sometimes the people saying these things grew up in all-white cities in New England. I have to laugh inside.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd more say: they made clear rules if you want to play business in China. Europe never set any boundaries. Honestly our fault.

Now EU is making clear rules against China. EU should apply exactly the same laws against Chinese like Chinese do against foreigners. China shouldn't complain, especially don't bitch about racism.

That's the same emotional dumb thought process that is sending US economy into tailspin with traiffs.
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