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Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

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Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#51

Post by ta12653421 »

jquery wrote: post #46
anonporridge wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rise of China has done a lot to destroy the neoliberal, globalist dream. Letting them cheat the globalist system (e.g. violating IP laws, human rights violations, Uyghur/Tibetan genocide) may have been fine when they were desperately poor, but there was always an implicit assumption that they would eventually start playing by the rules and culturally liberalize. But they're not. How can we hold onto ideals like "…

No, just no. I get where you’re coming from, but I disagree in the strongest terms that copying China is the way forward. Closed, centralized models can scale quickly, as China did, but open models generate more frontier innovation and resilience. Iirc, nearly half of our unicorns have immigrant founders. Sure, let’s harden IP and other trade laws, and punish China for violations (start treating them as an adult, a n…

this is what most WEIRD people do not understand: (Western-Educated-Industrial-Rich-Democratic) - by today it looks like that the Chinese system may proof to be more "performant" on most/several (all?) levels. Its hard to accept for libertarian minds, i guess.

Once here on HN someone wrote like: "democratic systems seems to be too slow to adapt in world changing at our current speed".

China did some vey wise decisions from their perspective; think about this joint-venture thingy that foreign companies need to have a JV partner which always holds at least 50.1% - very clever! Why did no western state do this? Its one of the by far smartest decision that you could do.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#52

Post by coliveira »

anonporridge wrote: post #33
juliusceasar wrote: post #3

Better late than never. China has so many anti-Foreigner laws for doing business in China. West has made China rich and powerful in exchange for cheap labour.

The rise of China has done a lot to destroy the neoliberal, globalist dream. Letting them cheat the globalist system (e.g. violating IP laws, human rights violations, Uyghur/Tibetan genocide) may have been fine when they were desperately poor, but there was always an implicit assumption that they would eventually start playing by the rules and culturally liberalize. But they're not. How can we hold onto ideals like "…

So this shows how much the West considers liberalism and open markets to be its "values" when they throw that completely away when they're economically threatened. This tells me that in hardship is when people show their true colors. The money is the true "value", everything else is just a side show.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#53

Post by heinternets »

hopelite wrote: post #29
mschuster91 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly yes, cheap crap tends to be Huawei. Everyone with a modicum of technical understanding goes for a Fritzbox though.

I’m not familiar with the Huawei matter because it’s similar not something I have to concern myself with, but can you point to something specific or a place where I could get some facts on why Huawei is justifiably frowned upon? I have never seen anything but the various broad claims in the news and by politicians that seem to always just kind of come down to “China bad” as evidence. Maybe I just didn’t care enough t…

Look at the Wikipedia article “criticism of Huawei” for a massive list of IP theft, espionage, backdoors and more, including references.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#54

Post by deepsun »

kwanbix wrote: post #28

Nice, in 2025, the world is a place where China can not be trusted, Russia can not be trusted, USA can not be trusted, Europe can not be trusted, etc. We are very far from the "imagine all the people, living live in peace". I wonder why that is...

Nice how you put them all on one row.

How Isaac Asimov said in "Relativity of wrong":

"When people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together".

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#55

Post by coliveira »

fodmap wrote: post #30

On the other hand Spain is using Huawei servers for almost all of their sensitive data. I wonder how the UE, and NATO, will react to that, because they're using Huawei for Social Security data, wiretapping data (SITEL), or even Intelligence Services data. https://therecord.media/spain-awards-contracts-huawei-intell...

And Spain will have 6G and all the niceties of telecom technology, while Germany will be stuck forever on 5G.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#56

Post by anonporridge »

coliveira wrote: post #52
anonporridge wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rise of China has done a lot to destroy the neoliberal, globalist dream. Letting them cheat the globalist system (e.g. violating IP laws, human rights violations, Uyghur/Tibetan genocide) may have been fine when they were desperately poor, but there was always an implicit assumption that they would eventually start playing by the rules and culturally liberalize. But they're not. How can we hold onto ideals like "…

So this shows how much the West considers liberalism and open markets to be its "values" when they throw that completely away when they're economically threatened. This tells me that in hardship is when people show their true colors. The money is the true "value", everything else is just a side show.

No, it's just game theory.

When you're playing prisoner's dilemma games, and your co-player is consistently defecting, you can only play cooperate for so long. Tit for tat is the only way you don't get majorly screwed by the defector over time.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#57

Post by coliveira »

nemomarx wrote: post #35
PeterStuer wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Nokia and Ericsson have substantial Blackrock and Vanguard investment.

blackrock and vanguard do index funds, yeah? They have substantial investments in everything on the market that's doing well enough to get on indexes. I don't see how you can avoid that?

Of course, that's the whole plan. The thing about index funds people don't see is they're giving away the voting rights to institutions controlled by who knows...

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#58

Post by anonporridge »

tharne wrote: post #40
anonporridge wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they? The United States honors international IP law and doesn't cheat its way into threatening domestic production of other countries like China does.

> Why should they? Because bashing all things American while ignoring the threat posed by China is part of Europe's cultural DNA.

Ditto Russia.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#60

Post by coliveira »

anonporridge wrote: post #56
coliveira wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this shows how much the West considers liberalism and open markets to be its "values" when they throw that completely away when they're economically threatened. This tells me that in hardship is when people show their true colors. The money is the true "value", everything else is just a side show.

No, it's just game theory. When you're playing prisoner's dilemma games, and your co-player is consistently defecting, you can only play cooperate for so long. Tit for tat is the only way you don't get majorly screwed by the defector over time.

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