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Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

bloomberg.com

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Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#41

Post by coliveira »

tchalla wrote: post #36

> “We’ll discuss with industry what we can do, not only to make ourselves independent from China, but also for example independent from the USA, independent from the big tech companies,” Merz said. Good to know it's not just China. > Merz ruled out fully decoupling from China, which is Germany’s second-biggest trading partner. “We can’t do that,” he said. “China can’t do that, but we can do it even less.” And even be…

> Good to know it's not just China.

If you believe this I have a bridge to sell you. They're using this to hide the real reason for the move, which is to do Washington's bid, just like a good colony does.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#42

Post by tharne »

NoiseBert69 wrote: post #4
juliusceasar wrote: post #3

Better late than never. China has so many anti-Foreigner laws for doing business in China. West has made China rich and powerful in exchange for cheap labour.

I'd more say: they made clear rules if you want to play business in China. Europe never set any boundaries. Honestly our fault.

The only rule the Chinese play by is, "It's only immoral if you get caught".

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#43

Post by hiimkeks »

anonporridge wrote: post #38
PeterStuer wrote: post #18

They are not wrong, but will they also ban Cisco in their "Sovereignty Push"?

Why should they? The United States honors international IP law and doesn't cheat its way into threatening domestic production of other countries like China does.

https://archive.is/tDC0W

https://archive.is/IQyBG

and this was before the US elected an overt fascist

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#44

Post by coliveira »

anonporridge wrote: post #38
PeterStuer wrote: post #18

They are not wrong, but will they also ban Cisco in their "Sovereignty Push"?

Why should they? The United States honors international IP law and doesn't cheat its way into threatening domestic production of other countries like China does.

> doesn't cheat its way into threatening domestic production of other countries

Can you still say this with a straight face with everything that is coming from Washington?

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#45

Post by ta12653421 »

NoiseBert69 wrote: post #4
juliusceasar wrote: post #3

Better late than never. China has so many anti-Foreigner laws for doing business in China. West has made China rich and powerful in exchange for cheap labour.

I'd more say: they made clear rules if you want to play business in China. Europe never set any boundaries. Honestly our fault.

Well, as European, i have to clearly state - unfortunately - this is only because of what happened in the 20th century: WWII. This "event" changed somehow the psychology, not allowing the EU to "stand up straight with our shoulders back".

Unfortunately. With around 500m customers, we could be powerful. But we arent: Stumbling upon our own feeds.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#46

Post by jquery »

anonporridge wrote: post #33
juliusceasar wrote: post #3

Better late than never. China has so many anti-Foreigner laws for doing business in China. West has made China rich and powerful in exchange for cheap labour.

The rise of China has done a lot to destroy the neoliberal, globalist dream. Letting them cheat the globalist system (e.g. violating IP laws, human rights violations, Uyghur/Tibetan genocide) may have been fine when they were desperately poor, but there was always an implicit assumption that they would eventually start playing by the rules and culturally liberalize. But they're not. How can we hold onto ideals like "…

No, just no. I get where you’re coming from, but I disagree in the strongest terms that copying China is the way forward. Closed, centralized models can scale quickly, as China did, but open models generate more frontier innovation and resilience. Iirc, nearly half of our unicorns have immigrant founders.

Sure, let’s harden IP and other trade laws, and punish China for violations (start treating them as an adult, a nation peer, instead of a rowdy child). But giving up our strategic advantage because China was able to semi-copy-us without having that advantage would be a huge mistake imo. I’m not saying America doesn’t need major changes, but I don’t think the way forward is to close our borders to global talent. Instead, let’s take advantage of our superpower status to implement UHC and UBI, to make our nation even more attractive to talented immigrants.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#47

Post by juliusceasar »

NoiseBert69 wrote: post #4
juliusceasar wrote: post #3

Better late than never. China has so many anti-Foreigner laws for doing business in China. West has made China rich and powerful in exchange for cheap labour.

I'd more say: they made clear rules if you want to play business in China. Europe never set any boundaries. Honestly our fault.

Now EU is making clear rules against China. EU should apply exactly the same laws against Chinese like Chinese do against foreigners.

China shouldn't complain, especially don't bitch about racism.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#48

Post by coliveira »

tharne wrote: post #42
NoiseBert69 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd more say: they made clear rules if you want to play business in China. Europe never set any boundaries. Honestly our fault.

The only rule the Chinese play by is, "It's only immoral if you get caught".

I thought this law was invented by American business.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#49

Post by mschuster91 »

hopelite wrote: post #29
mschuster91 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly yes, cheap crap tends to be Huawei. Everyone with a modicum of technical understanding goes for a Fritzbox though.

I’m not familiar with the Huawei matter because it’s similar not something I have to concern myself with, but can you point to something specific or a place where I could get some facts on why Huawei is justifiably frowned upon? I have never seen anything but the various broad claims in the news and by politicians that seem to always just kind of come down to “China bad” as evidence. Maybe I just didn’t care enough t…

> I’m not familiar with the Huawei matter because it’s similar not something I have to concern myself with, but can you point to something specific or a place where I could get some facts on why Huawei is justifiably frowned upon?

Try to use their routers as someone with needs greater than "get into the internet". Their UI is horribly slow and clunky, you'll need to reboot them every few months because something hangs itself and about every year or two they manage to get 0wned by a wormable exploit. On top of that, analyses have shown their firmware to be utterly rancid [1], although I do admit that this analysis is six years old.

> Maybe I just didn’t care enough to notice, but I would have thought that if there was something real to how Huawei hardware will make the sky fall, the powers that be would have surely made that case with clear and irrefutable proof.

The thing Western politicians are afraid of is running into another scenario like in the early days of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, where Viasat was hacked by the Russians leading to serious outages [2], or that the equipment - particularly anything with radios attached - can be "remote bricked" similar to how Israel detonated Hezbollah's pagers. It's bad enough we can't be sure that our own equipment is reasonably secure from cyber attacks, but Huawei is a complete blackbox. We need to prepare for a war scenario with China, either directly (the worst case), but at the very least as a side effect of an invasion of Taiwan. In either case I expect the CCP to behave like Mossad, cripple us piece by piece.

Even if the CCP never decides to invade Taiwan, it still makes sense to refuse their companies entry into our markets as long as our companies aren't welcome in theirs. I am a big friend of reciprocity and China hasn't given us much.

On top of that, Huawei was under fire for alleged sanctions violations and IP theft [3].

[1] https://www.securityweek.com/many-potential-backdoors-found-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viasat_hack

[3] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/13/huawei-ne...

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#50

Post by tchalla »

coliveira wrote: post #41
tchalla wrote: post #36

> “We’ll discuss with industry what we can do, not only to make ourselves independent from China, but also for example independent from the USA, independent from the big tech companies,” Merz said. Good to know it's not just China. > Merz ruled out fully decoupling from China, which is Germany’s second-biggest trading partner. “We can’t do that,” he said. “China can’t do that, but we can do it even less.” And even be…

> Good to know it's not just China. If you believe this I have a bridge to sell you. They're using this to hide the real reason for the move, which is to do Washington's bid, just like a good colony does.

I won't be surprised if they do the Washington's bid. A few years ago, they wouldn't even consider it. By the time we all die, may be they will.
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