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I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#101

Post by geerlingguy »

bluGill wrote: post #89
kccqzy wrote: post #14

> they shouldn't do 16 on a 15A circuit but it seems like some do There are 20A 120V circuits too! Called NEMA 5-20, one of its prongs is rotated. You plug that into a receptacle where one of the slots is T-shaped instead of straight. And it's standard practice for EVs to draw 80% of the maximum current, so 16A it is. I see this plug in larger machines in the office, like a large photocopier or a large vacuum.

Legaly kitchen and garrages need 20 amp circuits but they allow nema 5-15 outlets there.

Most older homes (like mine) only had 5-15, so over time I've added a couple 20A circuits with the horizontal blade outlets.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#102

Post by encom »

masklinn wrote: post #73
rsynnott wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that both J1772 & CCS2 are 100% universal in Europe is huge. Funnily enough, not for the Leaf! Though it will be on the third generation that's coming out this year. The second-gen Leaf (a ten year old design, at this point) that the author of the article bought doesn't have it. The EU only mandates CCS2 in _charging points_; manufacturers can still sell cars without it, though I think Nissan may be the on…

> The EU only mandates CCS2 in _charging points_ Right but that’s the most important one. If you have a leaf it means you know you need an adapter always , so while it’s a bit of a hassle to waste space on that there’s no question whether you’ll get a compatible charging plug.

Euro Leaf owner here. No CCS is indeed tiresome, but not a deal breaker. Chademo is still widely available - I haven't bothered buying an adapter.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#103

Post by thinkcontext »

potato3732842 wrote: post #79
blitzar wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> recharge after roughly 170 miles ... these cars won't be dead weight or dirt cheap The average car journey is 8 miles. Being an average with a finite lower limit of 0 it is skewed higher by the people who for various reasons drive long distances. You don't need a 1,000 mile range to get to the shops at the end of the street. It helps, but not that much.

You can screech about averages and means all you want but the fact of the matter is that if you're exceeding your vehicle's capabilities on a weekly or monthly basis the inconvenience of ownership goes up exponentially. I do 100mi/day but I all but need the ability to make that 200 on a weekly basis and am doing a 300 on a monthly basis. With charging at work and home those numbers become 50, 150 and 250 between char…

> I do 100mi/day

You are an extreme outlier, you should wait until the technology develops further. To use your parlance, no need to screech about people clutching their pearls at you.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#104

Post by stavros »

masklinn wrote: post #25

> Lack of standards: For 'L3' DC Fast Charging, the Leaf has a CHAdeMO port. Teslas and many newer EVs have NACS. Then there's CCS1 and CCS2. And charging stations are run by multiple vendors with multiple apps and payment methods. It's not like gas stations, like with Shell, BP, Buckee's, etc. where you just drive up, stick the gas nozzle in your tank, and squeeze. Afaik in Europe, CCS2 is the standard (and mandator…

I can confirm that, here in Greece, everything is CCS2. There are also CHAdeMO ports here and there, but I don't know what car uses those.

However, I haven't seen a station that takes card yet (or they don't advertise it). They all have their own app, which is inconvenient and a hassle.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#105

Post by 1970-01-01 »

quitit wrote: post #81

Something which this article highlights is the lack of reliable rail in the USA. Where I am there is a decent rail network, and the rail provider has a fleet of EVs for rent, where the cost of the electricity is included. This provides a "green" last mile solution even if the public transport itself in each area may be lacking (often it's not however). So a trip looks like this: Hop on the train which quickly takes t…

High speed rails would involve large scale manufacturing and long-term planning. This is the one thing the US simply cannot do anymore (unless it's military, then they will make 300ish in a decade)

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#106

Post by stavros »

sillyfluke wrote: post #66
jillesvangurp wrote: post #21

Electric Vehicle Man on Youtube did a review of a 2000 pound second hand Renault Zoe that he picked up a few weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEvwtxGeVpQ The second hand market for EVs is getting pretty interesting. There are lots of EV owners that are replacing their EVs every few years and because of all the growth over the last 10 years, there are now quite a few fairly nice EVs on the second hand market…

Don't really follow the secondhand EV market, but it seems to me firsthand buyers are still taking on considerable risk due to the range situation. People who have bought them abroad are sometimes advised to keep the battery between 20%-80-90% full. Following this advice, one person I know told me if they drive like they did their old car they have to recharge after roughly 170 miles, which is super annoying for them…

I keep the car at 20-80% when at home and driving around the city, I charge once a week. Before a trip, I let it charge to 100%, then charge to 80% on the trip (otherwise you waste time on the slow parts of the charge cycle).

It's really not a hassle at all. What's a hassle right now is finding a charger, as there aren't enough fast ones along the trip, but I've had the car for a year and have never needed to do a trip that long yet.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#107

Post by InsideOutSanta »

donatj wrote: post #6

Hmm, my friend had a 2015 Leaf, the interior seemed much nicer and more modern than this 2023 model. > There is no 'play/pause' button. Anywhere. At least not on the steering wheel or the display area. You have to go into the music section on the entertainment display, then press the software play/pause button. That's dumb. My new to me 2023 Honda Odyssey has the same stupid issue. It's my first vehicle with a touch…

Fortunately, the play/pause button problem is easily solved. Aliexpress sells play/pause buttons. Search for something like "Auto Wireless Media Button". They connect via Bluetooth, you can stick them anywhere on your dashboard, and they use a button cell that lasts about a year. There are also ring-shaped ones you can attach to the steering wheel.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#108

Post by arpinum »

gambiting wrote: post #88
formerly_proven wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even then the Leaf stands out with seemingly unusually high battery degradation compared to the uncooled battery competitors from 2014.

A VW e-Up(and its siblings, Skoda Citigo EV and Seat Mii Electric) all have passively cooled batteries but owners don't report much if any battery degradation even on the first gen models which are over 10 years old now. I can only assume it's the battery chemistry or cell composition compared to the Leaf. Our own is 4 years old and I haven't noticed any range loss compared to when it was new.

Could be due to American climate and Leafs getting sold heavily in America. Jeff lives in a place hotter and sunnier than Málaga. Cars can roast in their huge unshaded parking lots with black tarmac.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#109

Post by dzhiurgis »

geerlingguy wrote: post #97
usui wrote: post #54

How can you write "I bought the cheapest EV" in the blog title, and have a section called "Why buy Leaf?" followed by a one-liner zinger aphorism "Price." without writing... the price you bought your used Nissan Leaf for? Someone might want to reference how much it cost back in 2025 a few years down the road.

$17k minus an extra $2k added to my Camry's trade-in value, and it's eligible for the $4k used vehicle EV tax rebate at the end of the year. So out the door $15k with 36k miles and 94% doh battery, I was satisfied with the deal. At the end of the tax year I'll have paid $11k for the car, effectively. I tacked on the price of the CHAdeMO adapter mentally to the price I offered, since I knew I'd want it for the one or…

Could've bought Model 3 for this and spend $300 for third party buttons. It has software thats actually somewhat hackable and car is far more capable. But I understand it's hard to recommend Tesla these days lol.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#110

Post by dzhiurgis »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #98
usui wrote: post #54

How can you write "I bought the cheapest EV" in the blog title, and have a section called "Why buy Leaf?" followed by a one-liner zinger aphorism "Price." without writing... the price you bought your used Nissan Leaf for? Someone might want to reference how much it cost back in 2025 a few years down the road.

You could jump into your local used car listing site and check for yourself. In here a used 2022 leaf goes for about $20-22K CAD. 2016 models go as low as $8K - those had a range of about 120km when new.

In NZ you can get a Leaf for $1-2k, about 50km range remaining.
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