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Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

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Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#101

Post by senel »

pkoird wrote: post #97
supernova87a wrote: post #72

When given the opportunity, few people will vote against something that gives them more money. But whether their self-interest is in the broader interest is rarely solved for by such a mechanism. What will happen is that given a finite pot of money, fewer grad students will be taken on by the university's PhD programs, so that the ones who voted for this can get paid more. I'm not sure that's the right choice.

Maybe stop paying the bloated management so much and put money where mouth is.

In the program where I did my Master’s, there was a professor who had a salary of 300K and didn’t seem to do anything exceptional compared to his peers. PhD students told me he had been the president of some unit at the university and when he stepped down, he didn’t let go of the money. This silly financial idiocy easily costs 3-4 grad student more to the university every year.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#102

Post by lapcat »

shagie wrote: post #95
lapcat wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it obviously false or something? Yes. Doesn't "a bunch of them went off and got private sector jobs instead, limiting the size of the undergrad population" sound extremely implausible to you? As if graduate students can control enrollment. The comment sounds like a political hit piece, with no evidence provided. And Scott Walker was a major union buster who spurred massive protests at the Wisconsin State Capitol…

A number of STEM majors graduating in 2009 and 2010 decided to get a masters rather than enter that economy. As the economy recovered, STEM hiring picked up substantially and people with a masters degree were quite hirable. https://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2017/science-technology-engine... > Employment in STEM occupations grew by 10.5 percent, or 817,260 jobs, between May 2009 and May 2015, compared with 5.2 percent net…

The OP didn't even say which year this happened.

Anyway, I'm not disputing that grad students leave school for job opportunities. I am disputing whether they left because of some student union disagreement, and whether such a union disagreement could somehow limit undergraduate enrollment.

Moreover, the budget for the University of Wisconsin is set by the Governor and legislature, so if there's no enough money to pay TAs more, it's their fault.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#103

Post by CaliforniaKarl »

ftxbro wrote: post #83

Has something structurally changed at Stanford where making a graduate student union is now a good idea and it wasn't a good idea before, or was it always a good idea and only now they are doing it?

Until recently (some time within the last few years), it wasn’t clear if graduate students at private universities could unionize.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#104

Post by hedora »

tibbon wrote: post #61
CraigRo wrote: post #18

It was a disaster at Wisconsin. Union favored the 8th year humanities students at the expense of the 1 and 2 year STEM students, and traded cash for benefits that really only affected people with families. Stipends were the lowest in the country among major research universities, and the union refused to let wages rise for in-demand TAs, so a bunch of them went off and got private sector jobs instead, limiting the si…

One thing to keep in mind is that the union is presumably made of their members, and should act in alignment with some decision making process they arrive at together. Bargaining and figuring out goals shouldn’t be something for just the Bargaining Committee to do in a vacuum. If they valued the “wrong” things, then maybe they were still right for the majority in the union. (I’m a proud technology union member myself…

That is not how UAW works. There is an opaque set of rules that lead to UAW reps being elected, and then the UAW reps will not listen to member concerns unless the members first successfully petition to be heard at a meeting. To be counted in the petition, the people that sign it have to physically show up to the meeting, and the rules are set so that they may have to attend multiple meetings.

At that point the UAW rep is “allowed” to hear the concerns.

Many other things happen that can kill even the most basic common sense request.

Eventually, when it is time to vote on the contract, the UAW rolls the negotiations up into multiple campuses (at least with UC), so it is mathematically impossible for a given campus to block a contract ratification.

This is exactly what happened with UC Santa Cruz in 2020, and the reason UC Berkeley’s health care plan no longer covers a bunch of women’s health issues. (Word has it the union rep suggested that cut, not the administration.)

See my other comments on this thread for links, etc.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#105

Post by shagie »

lapcat wrote: post #102
shagie wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A number of STEM majors graduating in 2009 and 2010 decided to get a masters rather than enter that economy. As the economy recovered, STEM hiring picked up substantially and people with a masters degree were quite hirable. https://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2017/science-technology-engine... > Employment in STEM occupations grew by 10.5 percent, or 817,260 jobs, between May 2009 and May 2015, compared with 5.2 percent net…

The OP didn't even say which year this happened. Anyway, I'm not disputing that grad students leave school for job opportunities. I am disputing whether they left because of some student union disagreement, and whether such a union disagreement could somehow limit undergraduate enrollment. Moreover, the budget for the University of Wisconsin is set by the Governor and legislature, so if there's no enough money to pay…

In Wisconsin politics and with the context of unions, 2011 was a very memorable year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_Act_10 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_protests

If you were a STEM major graduating in 2009 or 2010, you went to grad school for a year or two and got a masters to wait out the recession.

In 2011, grad school was made much worse as the union for grad students was severely curtailed and benefits for state employees (grad students being state employees) reduced.

As the economy was picking up and you've got a masters and hiring in STEM fields is outpacing all other hiring - it is time to put off procrastinating in grad school and get a job.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#106

Post by ars »

How does a group of diverse people "win" a vote? Did the people who voted "no" also win?

The person you vote for can win, sure, and you can win if your preference is the majority, but the group can't win or lose.

i.e. this title doesn't make any sense - what did they actually vote for?

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#107

Post by supernova87a »

rafram wrote: post #96
supernova87a wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn’t say that. I think that grad students are reasonably paid a small salary to be able to live modestly on, so that more students can be taken into programs. Requiring a living wage to the tune of $50k/yr at UC Berkeley as the standard is not reasonable as a matter of spending university $ wisely, or as a matter of what the role of grad school is.

OK. How would you suggest that students cover $50k/year for six to eight years?

I don’t understand your sentence.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#108

Post by lapcat »

shagie wrote: post #105
lapcat wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP didn't even say which year this happened. Anyway, I'm not disputing that grad students leave school for job opportunities. I am disputing whether they left because of some student union disagreement, and whether such a union disagreement could somehow limit undergraduate enrollment. Moreover, the budget for the University of Wisconsin is set by the Governor and legislature, so if there's no enough money to pay…

In Wisconsin politics and with the context of unions, 2011 was a very memorable year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_Act_10 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_protests If you were a STEM major graduating in 2009 or 2010, you went to grad school for a year or two and got a masters to wait out the recession. In 2011, grad school was made much worse as the union for grad students was severely…

> In Wisconsin politics and with the context of unions, 2011 was a very memorable year.

I'm confused about the nature of your reply. You're more or less repeating what I already said in an earlier comment: "Scott Walker was a major union buster who spurred massive protests at the Wisconsin State Capitol in 2011 and a recall election"

To be clear, I'm a Wisconsinite and a former member of the TAA.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#109

Post by CaliforniaKarl »

supernova87a wrote: post #88
mycologos wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your perspective on taking 6 years to do a PhD is that you feel you should have paid for it?

Didn’t say that. I think that grad students are reasonably paid a small salary to be able to live modestly on, so that more students can be taken into programs. Requiring a living wage to the tune of $50k/yr at UC Berkeley as the standard is not reasonable as a matter of spending university $ wisely, or as a matter of what the role of grad school is.

I have two examples of how living modestly as a grad student at Stanford may be difficult.

• There is a University-sanctioned monthly food bank for students. https://rde.stanford.edu/food-pantry-pop-up

• After securing an apartment community specifically for postdocs, the minimum income required for many rentals was set higher than minimum postdoc funding. https://stanforddaily.com/2023/04/23/postdocs-say-theyre-fin...

Do I have hard numbers? No, but I’m not going to take the time to gather hard numbers for this site.

Also, telling postdocs (and grad students) to simply live off campus would be detrimental to the University, given it’s relationship with the County.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#110

Post by throwawaylinux »

dayvid wrote: post #65
CraigRo wrote: post #18

It was a disaster at Wisconsin. Union favored the 8th year humanities students at the expense of the 1 and 2 year STEM students, and traded cash for benefits that really only affected people with families. Stipends were the lowest in the country among major research universities, and the union refused to let wages rise for in-demand TAs, so a bunch of them went off and got private sector jobs instead, limiting the si…

I volunteer taught at a high school for a few months in Milwaukee when Scott Walker was in power. A lot of poor kids were bused to this school in a nicer neighborhood and couldn't do sports or extracurriculars because Walker cut funding for extra school buses to come later.

Such a weird concept, I could never understand it. Why not spend effort making their local neighborhoods and schools better?

Everybody grew up with richer and "better" schools and areas, I would have hated being sent out to those.

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