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Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

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Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#101

Post by jlund-molfese »

whoknew1122 wrote: post #94
jlund-molfese wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really don’t know about your rights as an employee, you should be aware that US workers have many rights guaranteed by law. Not as much protection as west Europeans, maybe! But the other side of the coin is that it’s so much easier to get hired, or start a business in the US. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/workers

The question isn't whether there are rights guaranteed by law. It's whether or not those laws are actually applied. That's why it's national news that Amazon was found to have violated labor laws... in a single warehouse in New York.[1] And that's before we get into intentional understaffing and industry capture of the US Department of Labor. https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgdejj/amazon-repeatedly-vio...

Well, now you’re moving the goalposts. I’m not arguing that workers are never mistreated. I would agree, sometimes they are, and that is bad! But it’s overly hyperbolic to say that US employees have no rights at all. They do, just not as many protections as a few other countries.

As an hourly, non-exempt employee, I had a legal right to overtime, paid breaks, and unpaid leave and other things. DOL signs were posted at the workplace, as is required, to inform workers about their rights. My employer (Best Buy) followed the law and I appreciated those legal protections, which the employer otherwise probably wouldn’t have given me. This is an anecdote, but is an example of a worker (me) having rights.

To be clear, that’s the specific argument I’m making. American workers have some rights, regardless of whether they’re perfect, or perfectly upheld. That’s obvious, isn’t it?

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#102

Post by ttymck »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #75
celso wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is illegal in Portugal. It's also illegal to fire someone based on the termination of a specific company role (assuming the company can do it, but this is another discussion) and then next hire someone else, contractor or not, for that same, or similar, role.

Hows that working out for Portugal‘s economy?

It would be very surprising if you believe labor protections are the root cause of Portugal's economic woes. Can you share how you drew that conclusion?

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#103

Post by pyuser583 »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #84
speedgoose wrote: post #48

I’m not a lawyer, but I have a vague idea about my rights and firing people to hire them as contractors instead is illegal in both jurisdictions I know, France and Norway. Firing people to hire contractors instead is risky because you need a reason to fire people. The reason could be economical, but one could easily argue in court that if the company is hiring contractors instead, well, it was not the real reason. Th…

The US has no such laws or restrictions. The only restrictions for firing in the US are with discrimination of protected classes.

This isn’t really true. Americans have more rights than they think.

It varies a lot, and can be confusing.

There’s an ongoing case about how venues like Madison Square Garden are using facial recognition to deny entry to employees of law firms suing them.

There are laws in place to protect theater critics. Those laws stem from an idea that it’s unlawful to prevent someone from earning a living/practicing their profession.

Many of those older laws are on the books.

There are strict anti blacklisting laws in many states.

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#104

Post by pyuser583 »

bjornsing wrote: post #42

It’s funny how in Sweden it’s exactly the other way around: Coming back as a (self-employed) contractor is like hitting the jackpot, you typically double your pay. Companies here even have policies to prevent employees switching over to contracting (for the same company). You have to work for some other company for at least a year.

Im betting that Swedens well-regarded social safety net pays a roll in this.

if benefits like insurance are unrelated to your job, and there are strong unemployment benefits, contracting would be 1000 times better.

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#105

Post by pyuser583 »

cagey wrote: post #46
omoikane wrote: post #18

Some places stipulates that if you return within some number of months after being laid off, you forfeit a prorated amount of your severance. This may make returning to the same company significantly less attractive.

Yeah, this happened to me (late 2021): was laid off, had at least one Sr. Director in an adjacent silo spinning up the process of lateral'ing me into his org, but HR confirmed that I would have to pro-rata repay severance should I resume FTE during the severance-paid interval (in my case, 6 months). I wasn't surprised as the last thing HR and bean counters want is to let an employee "double-dip", but assuming the int…

This is why people hate HR.

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#106

Post by bjornsing »

slaw wrote: post #90
bjornsing wrote: post #42

It’s funny how in Sweden it’s exactly the other way around: Coming back as a (self-employed) contractor is like hitting the jackpot, you typically double your pay. Companies here even have policies to prevent employees switching over to contracting (for the same company). You have to work for some other company for at least a year.

In Seattle going as contractor means making $150k instead of $300k. Does contracting in Sweden pay double? $600k? Or as a contractor you make half what Seattle contractor is making.

Actually a contractor is about $150k here too. But an employee makes more like $75k.

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#107

Post by mistermann »

kvdveer wrote: post #88
mistermann wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed that the natives are becoming increasingly restless...perhaps the winds of revolution are picking up?

I'm having a hard time seeing any of this from across the Atlantic. Could you elaborate or link to some source?

There seems to be substantial and increasing sentiment among the general public that the current approach (capitalism/neoliberalism/etc) ain't working, and incidences of "negative social behavior" (theft, stabbings, etc) seem to be increasing as a consequence.

Granted, "extinction level event" is a bit of a stretch (at least on a collective basis, though individually it can be a very different story), but perhaps we could manifest a French Revolution type of thing with some coordination.

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#108

Post by Scoundreller »

winddude wrote: post #53
speedgoose wrote: post #48

I’m not a lawyer, but I have a vague idea about my rights and firing people to hire them as contractors instead is illegal in both jurisdictions I know, France and Norway. Firing people to hire contractors instead is risky because you need a reason to fire people. The reason could be economical, but one could easily argue in court that if the company is hiring contractors instead, well, it was not the real reason. Th…

I think that's also illegal in Canada

Would depend on the province. Canada kinda sits between Europe and USA when it comes to worker rights.

You can always fire people without cause, but you would owe them termination and severance pay which positively correlates with (among other things) duration of employment and specialization.

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#109

Post by theGnuMe »

pkrotich wrote: post #81
speedgoose wrote: post #48

I’m not a lawyer, but I have a vague idea about my rights and firing people to hire them as contractors instead is illegal in both jurisdictions I know, France and Norway. Firing people to hire contractors instead is risky because you need a reason to fire people. The reason could be economical, but one could easily argue in court that if the company is hiring contractors instead, well, it was not the real reason. Th…

Not when it’s at-will employment. You don’t need a reason to fire anyone in most states in US. Only exceptions are protected things like because of gender or race etc - but that is even blurry to prove it. Unions are the only protection but companies do everything to burst unions e.g Starbucks and Amazon.

In the US at the Federal level the IRS and DOL have specific tests for contractor vs employee. If you hire contractors that are really employees they will come after you for misclassification. This is independent of State laws.

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#110

Post by andrei_says_ »

ttymck wrote: post #102
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hows that working out for Portugal‘s economy?

It would be very surprising if you believe labor protections are the root cause of Portugal's economic woes. Can you share how you drew that conclusion?

Not the person you’re replying to but I’m the US anti-union propaganda’s talking points do include “bad for the economy”.

Basically anything that hurts the top 0.1% is presented as bad for the economy. Which probably has a lot to do with how the economy is measured.

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