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A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

nytimes.com

101–110 of 294 posts

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#101
> So last semester for a global art history class, she took many precautions before showing a 14th-century painting of Islam’s founder. In the syllabus, she warned that images of holy figures, including the Prophet Muhammad and the Buddha, would be shown in the course. She asked students to contact her with any concerns, and she said no one did. In class, she prepped students, telling them that in a few minutes, the painting would be displayed, in case anyone wanted to leave.

> After Dr. López Prater showed the image, a senior in the class complained to the administration. Other Muslim students, not in the course, supported the student, saying the class was an attack on their religion. They demanded that officials take action.

Why is she complaining if she chose to stay in the class despite all the warnings?

Islam doesn't allow much nudity either:

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[0]Tell the believing men to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what they do.

[1]And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments1 except what normally appears.2 Let them draw their veils over their chests, and not reveal their ˹hidden˺ adornments3 except to their husbands, their fathers, their fathers-in-law, their sons, their stepsons, their brothers, their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons, their fellow women, those ˹bondwomen˺ in their possession, male attendants with no desire, or children who are still unaware of women’s nakedness.

---

I'm pretty sure art history is full of pictures of men and women in various state of nudity - should all that also be purged from the classroom? What is the standard to decide whether a painting can be shown? Or should the universities start allowing random art students from various religions to make decisions on whether The Dancing Girl[2] or Michelangelo's David[3] is fit to be displayed in the class?

Observing Hindus worship cow but beef is routinely consumed in Europe/America. So in accordance with their beliefs, they don't consume beef. Strict observers do not even go to places that serve beef (as is their right). What they don't do is complain to McDonald's that they are offended by other people consuming beef (and even if they did, I'm pretty sure the answer won't be to ban beef in McDonald's).

> At the Dec. 8 forum, which was attended by several dozen students, faculty and administrators, Ms. Wedatalla described, often through tears, how she felt seeing the image.“Who do I call at 8 a.m.,” she asked, when “you see someone disrespecting and offending your religion?”

What you do is, you question whether what happened was non-malicious, whether there was legitimate reason behind it and whether the offended person had the chance to avoid the experience altogether. In this scenario the answer to all those questions is, yes.

> The lecture was so disturbing, she said, that she could no longer see herself in that course.

Absolutely correct thinking and beneficial to all parties because clearly she doesn't have the mindset necessary for an art history class.

[0]: https://quran.com/24?startingVerse=30

[1]: https://quran.com/24?startingVerse=31

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_Girl_(sculpture)

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_(Michelangelo)

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#102
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was the wrong decision. It seems like it. It seems like the university didn’t even clearly understand that Muslims are divided on this topic before taking action. > Liberal institutions in the west have begun to increasingly yield to the demands of extremist minority views and doing so only emboldens them. You are free to insult white people, Christianity, and non transexual heterosexual men in this country bu…

Really? If you speak ill of "white people, Christianity, and non transexual heterosexual men" will you lose your job? Will you lose your job in liberal universities if you speak ill of Jews, Muslims, homosexuals, African Americans? In case of perceived bias, I'm a swing voting (95% Dem) Jew.

Yes, depending on what you say, absolutely. If I stood in my classroom and made blanket disparaging statements about cis men or Christians or white people, I guarantee students in those groups would go to the admin and complain. If what I said was bad enough, I’d likely be fired.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#103
post #87
post #61

Is Islam at all compatible with secular values in the same country? In the end, you will have one of the two encompass the other. Either you have a secular country living by democratic, progressive law which allows people to be Muslims modulo this. Or you have a Muslim country living by Shariah law, but tolerating secular non-believers in it. First won't work because Muslims (in the traditional sense) won't tolerate…

[flagged]

Godwin's law never seems to fail.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#104
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was the wrong decision. It seems like it. It seems like the university didn’t even clearly understand that Muslims are divided on this topic before taking action. > Liberal institutions in the west have begun to increasingly yield to the demands of extremist minority views and doing so only emboldens them. You are free to insult white people, Christianity, and non transexual heterosexual men in this country bu…

Really? If you speak ill of "white people, Christianity, and non transexual heterosexual men" will you lose your job? Will you lose your job in liberal universities if you speak ill of Jews, Muslims, homosexuals, African Americans? In case of perceived bias, I'm a swing voting (95% Dem) Jew.

The worst thing is that the white left decides what is offensive or not. I’m Asian and most of the things they claim as racism against Asian are so cringe, literally nobody cares.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#105
post #52
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just one more reason why we shouldn't care. A person's freedom to practice Islam does not imply an obligation from me to give any remote fuck.

> does not imply an obligation from me to give any remote fuck I don't think this attitude suitable in the diverse community where there are different ethnics or religons. People should care what the other find things unconfortable and should be aware that what you think acceptable is may not so for the others. Of course if you mean let them do their own things and you do not mean offense or insult them, I thank you…

I have zero tolerance for people who push their religious views on others and also use their religion to justify violence. This goes for Islam just as much for Christianity. I don't hear much about Christians beheading people over insulting Jesus in Europe though.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#107
post #87
post #61

Is Islam at all compatible with secular values in the same country? In the end, you will have one of the two encompass the other. Either you have a secular country living by democratic, progressive law which allows people to be Muslims modulo this. Or you have a Muslim country living by Shariah law, but tolerating secular non-believers in it. First won't work because Muslims (in the traditional sense) won't tolerate…

[flagged]

I have notice your comments in this thread where you are making wild assumptions of the users commenting.

Your reply here could fall under defamation.

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#108
post #4

In Europe she would be likely be dead or in protective custody. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10655679/Teacher-30... https://www.france24.com/en/france/20211015-the-violence-sho...

"In Europe" often doesn't makes sense as a generalisation. Both the UK and France have a significant Muslim population. That does not extend to Europe in general though. France is ~6% Muslim with large communities. Poland is well <0.1% with anti-islam ideas being common.

Germany is also ~6% Muslim. But one could argue whether Germans are a significant part of "Europe". Belgium is ~5% but that's just the seat of the EU, not a real country. Spain is ~3%, which is "interesting" given the history of Moorish conquest of Iberia and the Treaty of Grenada and the Inquisition. 2-3% in Italy, but Catholics and Muslims have a long tradition of living together in harmony. Poland's % may be a result of anti-Islam sentiment rather than a cause. But again, are Germany, Spain, Italy, and Poland really part of Europe? "Europe" is just a collection of EU members anyway, if it means anything at all. Which means Turkey will soon be "in Europe".

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? If you speak ill of "white people, Christianity, and non transexual heterosexual men" will you lose your job? Will you lose your job in liberal universities if you speak ill of Jews, Muslims, homosexuals, African Americans? In case of perceived bias, I'm a swing voting (95% Dem) Jew.

The worst thing is that the white left decides what is offensive or not. I’m Asian and most of the things they claim as racism against Asian are so cringe, literally nobody cares.

Same goes with the latinx movement. Actual people from latin America find it stupid and in some cases, ironically, offensive

Re: A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job

#110
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does not imply an obligation from me to give any remote fuck I don't think this attitude suitable in the diverse community where there are different ethnics or religons. People should care what the other find things unconfortable and should be aware that what you think acceptable is may not so for the others. Of course if you mean let them do their own things and you do not mean offense or insult them, I thank you…

I'm pretty sure everyone is aware that getting stabbed to death is "uncomfortable". I'd certainly not not "give a fuck" if it happened to me because I literally looked at somebody the wrong way.

I certainly do abhor any violence when it could be avoided when we respect each other's view and values. Especially if anyone resort to stab others because they feel offended.

What I mean, you shoud consider to stop yourself before you do things that controversial. Or do you keep silence if other people do things that you find offensive? Some other may not keep silence and may resort violence, and it is not limited to islam. Once again, I do not like violence or oppression when we can avoid those by respecting each others and talks nicely when any conflict happens.

Edit: typo and be more clear

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