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Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

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Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#101

Post by emkoemko »

dmonitor wrote: post #81
emkoemko wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just use Linux you get none of this nonsense

Quoted post unavailable.

zealot? this is why i switched... so many times i need my computer just to work when turned on but with Microsoft you have to wait for a mandatory update and then have to jump through hoops like we are installing windows software that you have to remember to unchecked all the stupid extra crap they will install on your computer vs just having a single place for all your software and where it all gets updated from.

this person complained about it and switching to Linux would solve their problem

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#102

Post by freediver »

summerlight wrote: post #99

Unfortunately in the current landscape, I think Firefox will unlikely gain the traction again even if we can bring those big techs to a fair playground. Browser development becomes an extremely complex, expensive project that requires at least hundreds of engineering headcounts and Mozilla cannot simply afford it. Worse, Servo was a kind of big bet to change the equation from the ground but Mozilla decided to abandon…

> I think Firefox will unlikely gain the traction again even if we can bring those big techs to a fair playground

Probably true, as long as it depends on the same big tech for revenue.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#103

Post by IshKebab »

scarface74 wrote: post #56
somenameforme wrote: post #15

Without commenting on the claims, it's interesting to consider how times have changed. Microsoft originally lost an antitrust lawsuit [1] over little more than tying Internet Explorer into their OS and not readily including alternatives. They not only lost that case, but the initial judgement was that the company was to be broken up. Microsoft started spending dramatically more money on "lobbying" following that. [1]…

The meme that MS lost the case about bundling IE with Windows is about as false and pervasive as “cable TV was once ad free”. MS won the case on appeal and absolutely nothing changed in the US. Even the cited Wikipedia article says as much. There was never a time since IE was bundled with Windows that IE didn’t come with Windows in the US. There was also no browser choice mandate in the US.

Not only that but barely anything changed in Europe either. They were required to show a browser choice screen... for 4 years. Only a tiny fraction of the population will have ever seen it.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#104

Post by pipeline_peak »

svnpenn wrote: post #87
dmonitor wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Wow, zealot much? someone makes a single, half sentence including the word Linux, and now they are a Zealot? Calm down dude.

Telling someone they should personally use Linux to avoid technical problems is kind of annoying lol.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#105

Post by iepathos »

I'm on a macbook currently using firefox for my default browser, haven't been forced to use safari. On my windows rig I use chrome, haven't been forced to use edge. This is provably false. Haven't been forced to use any specific browser across various operating systems and hardware.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#106

Post by smoldesu »

hunter-gatherer wrote: post #85
smoldesu wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I guess the NSA makes the most sense. They've been integrated into the corporate structure of FAANG for over a decade now, and they're the primary government entity making demands over this stuff. The who is a lot harder to track down - maybe there is a Wizard of Oz hiding behind one of our administrative curtains, but I think it's more of a bureaucratic process. Judging by what we know about America's surveill…

I'm sure I'll get downvoted for this and not believed by hardly anyone on this crowd so I'll keep it short and without evidence, only testimony: I was a US intelligence officer for some time. Not woth NSA, but did a lot of work with NSA, CIA, and the Bureau. The involvement between the US intelligence agencies and FAANG (in terms of the rough narrative involved) is a lot less impressive and threatening than people he…

I won't downvote you, but I have a really hard time believing you (and prefer to entertain the possibility you didn't have complete insight into the intelligence agencies). Thank you for replying though, it's interesting to hear alternate perspectives on the topic!

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#107

Post by speeder »

One of the things that piss me off is that sometimes even forks are not accepted.

For example Formula 1 TV doesn't work on my SmartTV or on some of my browsers despite them being forks of Chrome, where it works just fine.

Not only that, it used to work there in the past, what happened is now it actively detects if the browser is a real Google Chrome from Google (not a recompiled version), and refuse to work otherwise, even if technically it could work just fine.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#108

Post by Mountain_Skies »

svnpenn wrote: post #87
dmonitor wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Wow, zealot much? someone makes a single, half sentence including the word Linux, and now they are a Zealot? Calm down dude.

Telling someone to just use Linux comes from a position of privilege. Not everyone is tech savvy (no, I don't care about your grandma being able to write her own video drivers) and many people must use software that's not available on Linux. No, the open source version isn't the same thing and saying "just use WINE" is once again coming from a position of privilege. Overall, telling people to just use Linux is one that lacks empathy for individual circumstances.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#109

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

ravenstine wrote: post #71

What exactly are these companies supposed to do? Web access really is the meat behind modern OS usage. Say what you want about Microsoft, but that's exactly what they realized when they began shipping Internet Explorer with Windows (and got into hot water over it). Safari can't be deleted from iOS, but aspects of Safari are integral to the OS. As long as someone can use another web browser for actual web browsing, as…

> What exactly are these companies supposed to do? Web access really is the meat behind modern OS usage.

I mean, Europe used to mandate a selection screen on first boot that would just ask the user what browser to install; that seems pretty reasonable. Failing that, they could let the user actually change their default browser without harassing them or resetting it constantly (Windows) or allow people to actually use other browser engines at all (iOS).

> just work on making a competitive browser

They did. But it's hard to get people to switch when the OS vendor makes it artificially hard to switch.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#110

Post by ouid »

arnvald wrote: post #3

They're right, recently I've installed some Windows update for my parents and I had to reject like 5 suggested changes - installing Office trial, switching default browser to Edge yet again, and more. But this goes way beyond the browsers - I've never explicitly installed Keychain on my iphone and yet it shows as an option next to 1password every time I fill in a password field. Google calendar asks me to install an…

Its not really a game of cat and mouse. Law enforcement can seek penalties sufficient to prevent the behavior from proliferating.
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